We were watching Skynews and BBC and had the same thought simultaneously - the way Britain is portrayed there now, if it can be believed,well - what sane person would want to live there with all its PC, ethnic issues, ASBOs, stabbings everywhere, druggies, crying bereaved families and so on?
Of course, I don't trust Sky or the BBC as far as I could kick them and probably, out of the dangerous urban areas, it's quite OK but still - are you worried about living there, British readers of this blog?
And what of your economic situation? House prices, credit and mobile phone debt? Mortgages? The surveillance society? The vastly increased chance of arrest on technicalities? The situation in schools and with lost national data files left by people on trains? Is all OK with you in that green and pleasant land?
Because if not, then it seems to me it's a bit like, say, Welshcakes, Guthrum and myself zipping off years ago, on our respective starships and meeting up one day on Alpha Centauri, where the news has just come through to the big screen that the earth has blown itself up.
Oops - we're now permanent expats for the remainder of our lifetime. Even Grendel seems worried, opting to detour to Russia instead of immdeiately returning.
Just how bad is it over there now?
I live somewhere nice so I'm not worried about being stabbed. But I suppose I chose to live outside of London because of that.
ReplyDeleteWhat really worries me is what I see everyday around Westminster. Too many police, cameras and the political class. Nasty looking people.
The UK is on the way out. Well done to the socialists -- utopia here we come...
For me, it's a generally uneasy feeling, a sort of Phoney War time. Or, if you saw the German TV series "Heimat", there was an old woman who kept saying "Pump, pump! Alles auf pump! Eines tages must man das bezahlen!" ("Everything on credit, we'll have to pay the bill one day").
ReplyDeleteThe governmental class (both sides of the House) has gotten so clever at manipulating the British system of elections that democracy as we previously understood it is weakened; and in any case HP is largely an errand boy for EU. I fear that increasing remoteness will leads to increasing corruption, incompetence and authoritarianism.
The meeja seem to hunt in packs and, in my opinion, offer little value in getting a fair assessment of reality. Look at how they've switched from pro Brown to anti, almost as one man. The bottom end of journalism seems to copy-scribble from Press handouts and news agencies, the top end is drinking, dining and intermarrying with the people on whom they comment. And don't people like Rupert Murdoch have their own agenda to pursue here, from their safe distance?
So, in my view, the powerful have insulated themselves from the capricious votes of the people and the criticisms of the Fourth Estate; all we get is the odd victim thrown off the back of the troika, such as (it would seem) poor old Gordon.
The danger is that without feedback and regulating systems, machines will run to their own destruction. When I was a child, my dad explained the importance of a governor on an engine. That's how I feel about things now.
And if we don't find work for the working class, social decay will worsen.
It is even worst then you think. So my advice to all expat is.........stay where you are and forget the white cliffs of Dover. I rather put up with the Italian Post offices than the huge increase in crime in the UK and a nightmare of an economy.
ReplyDeleteI think its quite obvious how i feel from some of my posts. There are times its like a warzone where i live. But getting out is not easy. I have thought of leaving but this england is my home and i dont think i will leave till it has sunk.
ReplyDeleteI have just had a letter of retraction from a High Street Bank that I used to Bank with. It has taken them three years to issue this retraction under pain of a Court action, when they had made a bare faced lie in correspondence.
ReplyDeleteFor me it is the banal corruption at the local level I can no longer tolerate,not the national level, twere ever so. Much of this credit crunch has been caused by lying cheating bankers in flogging credit and mortgages to people who could not afford it, then parcelling up this fraud and flogging it to each other to evenly spread the pain round.
I am spending a month in France at Guthrum acres from the 1st August, I will be celebrating my belated 50th there with my french community and my English friends.
Hopefully at the end of this period, I will have set up my project in Africa, and there will be no further need for me to return to England. A country that I scarcely recognise, the Scottish Raj, an unfettered Police State and unrestricted immigration by cultures that do not recognise individuality and Liberty are at root cause.
Just sharing
I live in a very nice, small(as in no McDonalds etc), suburban town.
ReplyDeleteI know all my neighbours, and currently have multiple spare keys to look after, I also frequently fail to lock my back door/leave my windows open etc and don't worry about it too much.
I think most places are broadly similar outside of cities, people just happily get along with things as they always have done, the real issues are political/media driven, and as other commenters well describe, a general feeling of unease at the situation. However, to have that feeling you have to be plugged in to the political situation and in my experience the vast majority are not.
BG
PS, glad to see you posting and all back to normal x
I haven't lived in the UK for almost 25 years. Can't imagine going back to live. The weather alone is enough of a deterrent after many years of warm climates.
ReplyDeleteSome of these apocalyptical testimonies don't serve to modify that opinion.
If the media didn't miss-report every stabbing victim as innocent rather than an idiot mixing with criminals then people would realise that there is no problem at all.
ReplyDeleteCertainly in Bradford unless you are daft enough to mix with mindless thugs then you are in little if any danger. Even if you do mix with mindless thugs you are only going to get stabbed if you are really really stupid.
All in all I suspect that the victims are rather more to blame that people would like to admit.
Baht at....i agree that most of the stabbing victims carry knifes and are part of the problem..this isnt always the case. Im not going to harp on about good boys losing their lives to mindless thugs, but where i live the gangs do start on anyone in the crossfire including my family. Im unfortunate enough to live above an off-licence where most things happen and even closing my windows or curtains means i come in for abuse and things being thrown up.
ReplyDeleteIm also sure its a very different story outside of london.
For once, I find myself agreeing with Baht at. If you want to look for trouble in Hull, you will find it and even on the most notorious council estates it is still possible to live a quiet life. I live in a quiet residential area where crime is almost unheard of, however the media tries to portray Hull as the worst place to live in England.
ReplyDeleteMany victims of crime are not as innocent as they would have you believe, but there are some who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time through no fault of their own.
I live in quite a nice area. It is what the government are doing that worries me!
ReplyDeleteInteresting post, James
ReplyDeleteIn my corner of rural England I am quite secluded, and have a false sense of England granted , BUT I would be concerned about straying too far from home due to the horrendous crime rate and overall disrespect/apathy of nearly everyone in this country.
I live in fear I should get ill and end up in an NHS hospital.
The red tape is a never- ending roll that can never been unwound.
Why do people risk life and limb to [illegally ] enter the U.K? I would risk life and limb to get out.
I am lucky in that I am sheltered from the harsher realities that are the U.K , but nonetheless I find this country almost a third world in terms of progressive [sic]attitude and overall standard of living.
All my life I have returned nearly yearly to UK, until I moved here 10 yrs ago-near. I have seen a huge change here, but in some regards quite a backwards decline.
I would never live permanently in England, no matter the area, and as soon as I can find a way of smuggling Granddad's farm back to Canada, I am G-O-N-E!
Having said that, every spring I shall long for the green, green grass of home!
I both LOVE England and HATE it, but it's too stiflying and has become a police state, wiht nearly all individual rights either the eroded or never put into place in the first instance.
I disagree with Baht At and Andrew.
ReplyDeleteI think given the significantly lower population, the UK has a higher crime rate that the U.S.
There are too many people just going about their day who seem to be the unknown victims of youth gang crime.
This is, fundamentally, because this is a generation of youth without hope. Lack of education, poverty, absent parenting, apathy of the school systems, all contributes in creating a bleak future for our youth, which leaves them nothing to strive for, and results in increased crime.
I feel sorry for the youth of Britain. It's glory days are OVER!
James don't take the media too seriously- they make their livings from a sense of catastrophe. As for Ubermouth, Britain a third world country! Have you ever been to a third world country?
ReplyDeleteI live in London, and yes there are nasty aspects- but I still wouldn't move. London does have a crime problem- but its not like every person in London is being mugged or knifed- I know victims but not many. Furthermore the flip side is that London is an exciting place to live- culturally its exceptional- in terms of learning there are seminars all the time- there are great museums. Yes the economy isn't looking too good but its not throughout the world either- and Britain has at the moment record employment- furthermore despite what you hear about crime, historiclaly its low.
To put it in context James, when I went to Moscow a couple of years ago I was scared out of my wits and yet I'm quite happy to walk through some of the rougher neighbourhoods in London every day. Britain isn't a paradise, but its not armageddon either- and Ubermouth needs to get a sense of perspective.
As much as I love Wales, I would not move back even if I could. Living in Thatcher's World was bad enough at the time but enduring her Legacy would be intolerable.
ReplyDeleteI have just thought of Neville Shute - his Britain of 'In The Wet' is becoming a reality. He just jumped the gun rather. Not that I see Oz taking on Charlie as their King.
The white flight has become a torrent, nobody with children can school them within the M25 without paying private fees in the knowledge that they will suffer the tribulations of tribal rivalry. Its the truth that's whispered everywhere I go.
ReplyDeleteUbermouth - what a complete load of balls .... if you fell ill and had to be treated in the NHS you'd get the best health care in the world (with the possible exception of Cuba) and they wouldn't empty your wallet before they started treatment either.
ReplyDeleteAs your comments about people going about their business sufferring from crime I can't say any of the stabbing victims (with the possible exception of the two french students) would fall into my views of what is an innocent victim.
We really ought to make americans take citizenship classes to remove their idiotic ideas before we let them into the country.
I try not to worry, though the news makes that difficult. I watch very little now as the only way of keeping what sanity remains. I have a daughter in Wales who seems safe. I also have a daughter in Essex, which seems less so. Mothers worry whatever, and the news helps not at all!
ReplyDeleteWell I'm an expat, but not of England so won't comment on the topic but I have found the comments on this post very interesting indeed.
ReplyDeleteI lived in London for almost two years not long after the Notting Hill race riots, which still coloured everyone's perception of London.
OH dear, oh dear - it was fine when I left, but are we speaking of Britain or just England? Scotland always finds a way you know. If it comes to it we will hide away in our castles (we have them lying about the place) and wait out the siege. Lovely to see you again James dear.
ReplyDeleteFirst off Baht AT, I am British and secondly have never lived in America. I did not say I was referring to knife crime in particular. What about the man who was beaten to death for his mobile phone? He was walking down the street... many such stories.
ReplyDeleteI would not get the best health care in the world in Britain , if I fell ill here, but likely MRSA.
Canada has a far better health and social net than Britain, by a long shot.
America is only as bad as what you want to believe in the media hype.
ReplyDeleteRob - the presence is worrying.
ReplyDeleteSackers - machines will run to their own destruction - too true.
Anon - heeded.
Kate - also noted.
Guthrum - banal corruption at the local level I can no longer tolerate - brings one close to tears.
Bendygirl - think most places are broadly similar outside of cities, people just happily get along with things as they always have done ' perhaps so for the average person but other commenters seem to disagree here.
Colin - my thoughts too.
Baht At - not everyone's that savvy though.
Andrew - For once, I find myself agreeing with Baht at. May we quote you? lol
Cherie, Uber - yes and a different take. Suppose if you're secluded it's better.
Tiberius - yes, it needs to be seen in context. Am reading each comment carefully here.
Aileni - that's our sadness.
Wolfie - enigmatic but true.
Dragonstar - difficult not to worry about one's country.
JMB - yes it seems to have changed. Lady M too - yes it does seem to have and yes - it is Britain we're talking about.
Nunyaa - I know you believe this and you're most likely right.
Baht At and Uber - hey, people - keep it on topic, OK?
Everyone - thank you so much. For mee it was more than a post - it was heartfelt and I am going back over all this and scrutinizing it again later. Thanks.
I live in New Zealand and am astonished at the way you guys are running down the place. Here down under at the top of the world, exactly the same sentiments are being expressed about violence, govt intrusion into every aspect of life, compliance, red tape, schools, hospitals and services going to the dogs. It seems to be a world wide malaise. Tourists who come to NZ have to be bloody careful in parts of NZ.
ReplyDeleteNew Zealanders bugger off to Australia in droves, but the majority come back because the grass is not always greener.
Where I live there is a growing English expat community, they do very well with the exchange rate and create a very nice lifestyle for themselves but when you work with them I don't think they are any happier and from some of the whingeing that I hear from a minority I don't think they would be happy anywhere.
I think that contentment is a personal and spiritual question and trying to quantify advantages of living anywhere is surely a question of relativity - who the hell would want to live in Afganistan or the Congo?
I was in the UK in 2006 and loved the place AND I'm coming back!
Possible Headline
ReplyDeleteTwo Yorkshiremen finally agree after bitter personal feud.
Thanks, Tillerman. Isn't Australia that island off the coast of New Zealand?
ReplyDeleteColin - Yorhshiremen disagree? Never. You tell yound people that today and they won't believe you.
Yes indeed and 'you're the man' for understanding the local geography, you could obviously sell ice cubes to eskimoes you silvery tongued devil - you obviously have a sharp sense of the local cultural values.
ReplyDeleteWe love the Australians so much we send certain people there every year, it raises the average IQ of both countries immensely.
We actually get on really well with them and they appreciate the rugby lessons we give them.