According to angry FDNY firefighters, Mr Giuliani's campaign for the Republican Party's presidential nomination next year is based upon false pretences. They say front-runner Mr Giuliani has no right to cloak himself in the mantle of 9/11, still less to claim his track record on terrorism issues in
It then goes into the yeas and nays of the whole business and my first reaction [and I state that I don't think Giuliani qualifies for president because of his transvestite capers but then again - who am I to say?] was that the supposedly bi-partisan criticisms were a bit thin.
It seemed to me a bit of a beat up.
Sure politicians are going to claim credit for one or two heroic actions when they've let the whole infrastructure rot for years before - it's in the nature of the job and which pollie is guiltless?
Here are some back and forth reactions:
# "Bipartisan"?? my back side!!!...all these unions are as liberal as they get!!
# No one has more right than the firefighters to call Rudy on his actions as mayor. His self righteous attitude, patting himself on the back, and false claims about what he did to fight terrorism speak for themselves. He wasted years when he could have updated the firefighter's communication system.
# It's like a Private commenting on how a General does his job, the private has no clue.
# These guys are just jealous. So what if he screwed up the radio thing, everyone makes mistakes, and so what if he made some money on 9/11, who wouldn't have?
And then one which hit home with me. I have no way of verifying it and don't know what to think:
# The idea that Guiliani is some kind of hero from Sept 11 is a complete joke. Not only did he do nothing, he was a traitor on that day. There were 2 or 3 journalists that Guiliani told prior to the collapse of WTC7 that they were going to purposely bring that building down. I think one was Tom Brokaw - TV personality, also a print journalist I think for New York Daily News.
It's very well documented. He knew in advance that WTC7 was going to come down. and he said so and then on the ground police were telling people with megaphones to clear back from the building in the minutes before the collapse and even saying that it was going to come down. That building was evacuated and nobody died in it (that we know of). But Rudy knew it was coming down in advance, the police knew, it was purposely evacuated.
That means it was demolished purposely just as Dan Rather said on live tv when it happened.
That means they had explosives in the building all up & down to make it come down at near free-fall speeds and directly down on its own foot-print … and then we have all the firefighters & citizens inside the buildings who witnessed the explosions going off.
People Magazine and the New York Times quoted people from the inside telling of it just before the collapse. There are audio recordings of the firemen who died talking of it. One survivor, William Rodriguez, lived to tell about the 2 explosions he witnessed inside the building.
Bottom line - Rudy Guiliani is a traitor and the firemen's lives were sacrificed. Rudy was in the command center in WTC7 when it happened. He knew what was going on. He played along. The firemen know from their internal communications networks that the whole thing was a fraud and that their fellow firemen were sacrificed. And they were told very strongly to keep quiet about it. This is why they're so upset. [Wally, By The Rivers Of Babylon, July 12th, 2007]
Predictably:
# It is election time. Told you before that the fun and games will begin and they have. Giuliani is a politician and is running for for nomination for president on the republican ticket. The unions are very anti-republican. Think you can figure out what is going on here.He was mayor on 9-11 and was responsible for the strategic part but that is all. He acted on what his advisors told him, fire and police commissioner and the head of emergency management. Still he did well but not enough to qualify him for the presidency.
Yes, internet-populated-by-nutters-shocker.
ReplyDeleteMaybe these "liberal" unions are pissed about Giuliani trousering $11 million in speaking engagements on the back of his bullshit hero status, while the actual 9/11 rescue workers were falling ill with respiratory ailments and cancers.
In fact, the only thing Giuliani has done to address the mysterious illnesses of the WTC workers is write to Congress to ask them to cap the city's liability at $350 million.
Nothing illegal about it, but I'd think twice before throwing my support behind a money-grubbing, disingenuous little turd like Rudy.
As they say, just because it's a lunatic saying it doesn't mean it's not true.
Damn, did I ever get out of bed on the wrong side this morning.
I'm posting STB's comment whole in this way because when one uses a long url, it always distorts the template:
ReplyDeleteJames,
I admit I'm puzzled by your comment: 'and don't know what to think:'. Is it because of the allegations about Giuliani or the ones about building 7? Or both?
There's a plethora of films on YouTube covering this, one in particular showing the owner of the building agreeing 'to pull' it.
As for Giuliani, there are quite a few recordings of him saying things easily misinterpretable (to be polite) such as this:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/
giuliani_caught_in_bizzare_building_7_lie.htm.
If you have not seen these: Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com give many pointers. They can both be called conspiracy sites so make your own mind up. However, this can be as interesting as the NWO, so be prepared for the sheer volume of info and links.
STB.
ps to flying rodent, honest, I'm not a nutter!
STB - i think that's jsut FR's way of putting things. He's referring to himself there.
ReplyDeleteAs for Giuliani, I admit I hadn't thought much about him until today. I know Ruthie loves him and I know he's a tranvestite but apart from that, I really knew nothing.
Who are the alternatives?
ReplyDeleteI'd still rather have Guiliani than the other options, were I an American.
The only gripe I had was his equivocation on the abortion issue, but he has committed himself in favour of the policy of the current administration.
Otherwise, he has charisma and pragmatism.
New York City has had more union scandals and upheaval than any other major city I can think of-- even those known for corruption. The teamsters were in the mafia, for one thing, and until the various local segments were placed under trusteeship, many of them were run directly or indirectly by the Gottis.
ReplyDeleteHeads of a plumbers union were convicted in the mid-'90s of extorting over a million dollars in bribes.
In the late '90s, the president of the transit police union was convicted of taking kickbacks.
The transit workers all just went on strike a few years ago-- bringing back shades of the early '90s when private trash haulers had to be hired.
I really have very little patience with NYC unions. I had a unionized job once there, too, in a hotel. I was not been impressed, and it was the worst job I ever had.
If I were a marginally corrupt union, I wouldn't like Giuliani much either.
I don't believe For. A. Second. that 9/11 was an inside job, and I don't say that lightly. I have seen all the passing conspiracy videos and given the Web sites a fair look.
I think you really have to be a special kind of crazy to honestly believe that this is a vast internal conspiracy perpetrated BY the U.S. to deliberately murder 3,000 American civilians. Our government is not slick (or downright evil) enough to pull that off.
I was watching live on TV as the second plane hit. I've had people try to tell me that it was a missile, not a plane, that hit the Pentagon-- I've had people try to tell me all kinds of nutty things. I was working for a congressman two years later who was physically present at the Pentagon WHEN the plane hit. I now have a colleague at the paper who was also present. The colleague showed me pictures. I've seen the video footage, and I believe both of them. It was a plane, unmistakably and without question.
The WTC wasn't pulled down from the inside. A plane hit it, and it collapsed. This has been exhaustively documented by everyone from news organizations to the architect of the building himself.
In any case, I still like Rudy. Like CBI, I don't see many better options-- perhaps if the other candidates weren't so abysmal, it would be a different story.
The guy whose comment in your post regarded WTC 7 sounds like a truther to me. The idea that the gov't had a hand in the 9/11 attacks is simply absurd. There was a heavy gas line or something (I can't remember what) in WTC 7 and after WTC 1 & 2 went down (with all the explosions from jet fuel igniting, etc), it's not hard to imagine that WTC 7 would eventually go down. I haven't heard or seen any of this evidence. Once again, the whole notion that the gov't planned 9/11 or knew of the attacks is absurd.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit I still like him: people who have had problems in theor personal lives often turn out to be unlikely heroes because they have "regard for human frailty". I don't know if he was really a hero or not but he seems the best of the bunch to me.
ReplyDeleteJust thought of something more... I got a bit carried away last time and forgot this bit.
ReplyDeleteRe: WTC7:
The owner of the building who was quoted as agreeing to "pull" the building was NOT a firefighter, nor a demolition expert, and there is no reason to believe that he meant "pull" to mean a form of organized demolition. In any case, from what I understand, "pull" is a reference to cables used to pull other buildings away from a building being demolished, not a reference to setting explosives off to bring a building down.
All the other buildings within the same radius from the two towers were hit. WTC7 was the tallest, overtaken by unfought fires, and every indication seems to be that the firefighters pulled out and allowed the building to fall because they thought it was a lost cause. The fire chief at the time said they formed a collapse zone and wanted everyone to get out of the area because the building would inevitably collapse, given its damage.
For the life of me, I do not understand why some people cling so tenaciously to the idea that this was somehow masterminded by an evil government conspiracy.
James: you're a climate porn, world conspiracy theorizing truther now?
ReplyDelete