I must admit I was a little mystified at who UK News was.
I don't really know what to suggest as a course of action- or even if a course of action is right.
I think this is the kind of issue that needs to be resolved WITHIN Blogpower. These awards ARE open to everyone, but ultimately it is up to Blogpower members to set the rules.
Maybe Blogpower members should be consulted on their feelings on this, though people such as myself, who are on the same ballot as UK News, should not be consulted on this, for obvious reasons of partiality.
Imagine that I had roped in a few pals to get their friends to vote for me. I might have found easily 30 - 40 people to vote for me each day - possibly enough to win.
Would that be deemed acceptable because my politics are not of the BNP variety? All it would take was the desire and a bit of organisation.
Would it be deemed acceptable if Conservatives organised themselves to vote for a Conservative blog or Labour for a Labour vote?
As much as I detest their policies, I can't see how or why UK News etc and Central News can be excluded provided they have worked within the rules.
To do other than this is censorship. We must be careful not to call censorship "violations of fair play"
In part I personally think Callum is right. My own position has not been to encourage anyone particularly to nominate or vote for me- as you'll know I didn't nominate myself in any category :) and I think others like Not Saussure have had the same attitude. Some though have been more proactive about it. Well in a sense that is their luck.
To be honest the thing I'm more worried about is if a BNP blog were to win and be able say to put up best Blogpower blog on their page- I don't think I could endorse that conclusion whereas I could be happy saying that Lord Nazh, Ruthie, yourself, the Ians or Not Saussure or the many other members were best blogger and promote them as winners I would feel very uneasy promoting a BNP blog as the winner.
I too would find it difficult to endorse "Central" or UK news" as an award winner but that would be because I was uncomfortable promoting their policies. Of course, I can decide not to endorse any particular winner.
The real issue is, as Gracchi says, that these blogs can promote themselves as award winners. To deny them "victory", if that is the result, allows them to claim censorship.
As long as relatively few vote attempts to "swing" a poll in one direction have a good chance of success. One way to deny any attempts to "swing" a poll, or to prevent those with whom we disagree strongly, is to hope/ensure that more people vote for other candidates. However, because I am in a category with "Central" and "UK News", I could not take part in any such plan.
Everyone else, understanding that BlogPower is about promoting smaller blogs and so forth, seems to have realised without too much difficulty that actively canvassing support, particularly on the grounds that
all those BNPers that nominated me can be proud that you raised the name of the BNP. If I get a good vote you can be even more proud of the online organisation of the BNP,
would be rather against the spirit of the thing.
Indeed, many of us will recall that one reason BlogPower got started in the first place was that James was rightly irritated at the way larger US blogs were taking over all the awards by endorsing slates of their favoured blogs and thus preventing anyone else getting a look-in.
Not these characters, though; they do seem to be having difficulties integrating with the host community, as it were.
I'm genuinely not bothered whether I win anything or not -- easy enough for me to say, of course, because I know anyway I'm reasonably widely read and well-thought of by people whose opinions matter to me and because I've recently picked up an award somewhere else -- but I do feel rather irritated on behalf of some of the rest of us, who are rather getting steamrollered out by this tactic.
I would have hoped, too, particularly after all the fuss we had a few months ago, young Mr Central News would have realised that many of us will likely be somewhat aggrieved that these awards are being manipulated to raise the profile of his loathsome political party.
There are wider issues on the line here, as Notsaussure points out.
These awards are seemingly being used to promote a political party that Most of us agree is loathsome in it's politics, I think everyone agrees on that.
A stance certainly needs to be made here against the BNP.
But I am not sure how far Wayne is being caught in the crossfire here. It is UK News, not Central News that the far Right are pushing.
Preventing Racists from ruining these awards must be paramount, but the inclusivity of Blogpower is important also.
At the moment, this all leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, either way.
Fair enough, Crushed by Ingsoc, though Wayne did promote these awards as a way his party could raise its profile, so I don't think he's entirely the innocent victim of circumstances you suggest.
It's not particularly the fact it's the BNP who're doing it that upsets me; I'd be equally annoyed if a more mainstream political party, or even a particular blogger and his friends, tried to hijack these awards. The fact it's an outfit like the BNP certainly aggravates the offence -- though I suppose they probably don't know any better -- but that's certainly not the main reason I'm unhappy about it.
I didn't see this thread here and posted the following at Tony's Blog under his article.
Sorry but I still don't see the problem.
He is getting his mates to vote for him because of their relationship rather than the fact his blog deserves it.
I always thought that the one with the most votes wins. Not the one with the best blog. It's a bit like football. The points are given for the goals scored not the entertainment value of the game.
Now if he had been hacking in and making changes then I could understand it but for having the nerve to ask his mates to vote for him. What a b4$^4rd.
Thankyou for drawing this to our attention.
ReplyDeleteI must admit I was a little mystified at who UK News was.
I don't really know what to suggest as a course of action- or even if a course of action is right.
I think this is the kind of issue that needs to be resolved WITHIN Blogpower.
These awards ARE open to everyone, but ultimately it is up to Blogpower members to set the rules.
Maybe Blogpower members should be consulted on their feelings on this, though people such as myself, who are on the same ballot as UK News, should not be consulted on this, for obvious reasons of partiality.
Just an idea.
I think that we just have to let this run its course and disqualify these egregious violations of fair play at a later stage.
ReplyDeleteUgly and unfortunate, but there is not much we can do about it.
A difficult situation.
ReplyDeleteImagine that I had roped in a few pals to get their friends to vote for me. I might have found easily 30 - 40 people to vote for me each day - possibly enough to win.
Would that be deemed acceptable because my politics are not of the BNP variety? All it would take was the desire and a bit of organisation.
Would it be deemed acceptable if Conservatives organised themselves to vote for a Conservative blog or Labour for a Labour vote?
As much as I detest their policies, I can't see how or why UK News etc and Central News can be excluded provided they have worked within the rules.
To do other than this is censorship. We must be careful not to call censorship "violations of fair play"
James I'm glad you've linked to this.
ReplyDeleteIn part I personally think Callum is right. My own position has not been to encourage anyone particularly to nominate or vote for me- as you'll know I didn't nominate myself in any category :) and I think others like Not Saussure have had the same attitude. Some though have been more proactive about it. Well in a sense that is their luck.
To be honest the thing I'm more worried about is if a BNP blog were to win and be able say to put up best Blogpower blog on their page- I don't think I could endorse that conclusion whereas I could be happy saying that Lord Nazh, Ruthie, yourself, the Ians or Not Saussure or the many other members were best blogger and promote them as winners I would feel very uneasy promoting a BNP blog as the winner.
I too would find it difficult to endorse "Central" or UK news" as an award winner but that would be because I was uncomfortable promoting their policies. Of course, I can decide not to endorse any particular winner.
ReplyDeleteThe real issue is, as Gracchi says, that these blogs can promote themselves as award winners. To deny them "victory", if that is the result, allows them to claim censorship.
As long as relatively few vote attempts to "swing" a poll in one direction have a good chance of success. One way to deny any attempts to "swing" a poll, or to prevent those with whom we disagree strongly, is to hope/ensure that more people vote for other candidates. However, because I am in a category with "Central" and "UK News", I could not take part in any such plan.
No need to worry, boys. We have it all sussed out. Watch the Blogpower announcement on Thursday evening.
ReplyDeleteJames
ReplyDeleteWhy am I apprehensive about your announcement?
I hope you really know what you are doing.
Everyone else, understanding that BlogPower is about promoting smaller blogs and so forth, seems to have realised without too much difficulty that actively canvassing support, particularly on the grounds that
ReplyDeleteall those BNPers that nominated me can be proud that you raised the name of the BNP. If I get a good vote you can be even more proud of the online organisation of the BNP,
would be rather against the spirit of the thing.
Indeed, many of us will recall that one reason BlogPower got started in the first place was that James was rightly irritated at the way larger US blogs were taking over all the awards by endorsing slates of their favoured blogs and thus preventing anyone else getting a look-in.
Not these characters, though; they do seem to be having difficulties integrating with the host community, as it were.
I'm genuinely not bothered whether I win anything or not -- easy enough for me to say, of course, because I know anyway I'm reasonably widely read and well-thought of by people whose opinions matter to me and because I've recently picked up an award somewhere else -- but I do feel rather irritated on behalf of some of the rest of us, who are rather getting steamrollered out by this tactic.
I would have hoped, too, particularly after all the fuss we had a few months ago, young Mr Central News would have realised that many of us will likely be somewhat aggrieved that these awards are being manipulated to raise the profile of his loathsome political party.
There are wider issues on the line here, as Notsaussure points out.
ReplyDeleteThese awards are seemingly being used to promote a political party that Most of us agree is loathsome in it's politics, I think everyone agrees on that.
A stance certainly needs to be made here against the BNP.
But I am not sure how far Wayne is being caught in the crossfire here.
It is UK News, not Central News that the far Right are pushing.
Preventing Racists from ruining these awards must be paramount, but the inclusivity of Blogpower is important also.
At the moment, this all leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, either way.
Fair enough, Crushed by Ingsoc, though Wayne did promote these awards as a way his party could raise its profile, so I don't think he's entirely the innocent victim of circumstances you suggest.
ReplyDeleteIt's not particularly the fact it's the BNP who're doing it that upsets me; I'd be equally annoyed if a more mainstream political party, or even a particular blogger and his friends, tried to hijack these awards. The fact it's an outfit like the BNP certainly aggravates the offence -- though I suppose they probably don't know any better -- but that's certainly not the main reason I'm unhappy about it.
I didn't see this thread here and posted the following at Tony's Blog under his article.
ReplyDeleteSorry but I still don't see the problem.
He is getting his mates to vote for him because of their relationship rather than the fact his blog deserves it.
I always thought that the one with the most votes wins. Not the one with the best blog. It's a bit like football. The points are given for the goals scored not the entertainment value of the game.
Now if he had been hacking in and making changes then I could understand it but for having the nerve to ask his mates to vote for him. What a b4$^4rd.
Can I have proof that UK News is being promoted by the far right? He is a conservative blogger and not a BNP blogger.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't make much sense for BNP bloggers to promote a conservative blog.
Wayne, I am the only person who could give such proof and I'm not saying what I have or if I have any at all.
ReplyDeleteI have said at Blogpower not long ago that it's time to put a lid on this issue for now and so I'm switching off comments on this post.
If we wish, we can discuss it again after the awards close. Agreed?