Tiberius is a learned and erudite historian. Personally, I don't know that I've ever met a kinder and more supportive chap and he's also a Blogpowerer. I can say he's a most important person in my life and if his blog ever disappeared, there are so many people who'd agree the blogosphere would be so much the poorer for it.
Having said that, Tiberius' easy learned-ness, if I could put it that way, does lead him into an accepting, tolerant, refined and urbane world view. Therefore, a 'gung-ho' post such as my Immigration manifesto would certainly offend his sensibilities.
And yet that outlook does not serve in all situations. My former military and my headmaster experiences have shown that there are situations where the only response is the 'brick wall'. We were trained to follow the maxim:
Fair, firm and friendly.... and this has served well all my working life. This is what I'm advocating - not a frenzy of race hatred, not extreme reactions. Just fair, firm and friendly, on a case by case scenario.
It was John Arbuthnot Fisher, in a lecture around 1899, who wrote:
The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.
In an amusing episode of Ripping Yarns, the natives were attacking the British compound and the colonel said to his wife something along the lines of:
'I'm going out to offer them a cup of tea. We need to be kind to them.'
Of course the result was a foregone conclusion.
Retaliation is not what I'm writing of here. Nor punishment. Nor incarceration. And yet, those very nasty specimens who preach violence and are trying to overthrow our society cannot be dealt with by a hug and a kiss. Their agenda is otherwise.
Tiberius and I cannot agree on this because we have differing experiences of people and I have seen some most unreasonable ones in my time.
To Tiberius' comments:
The official religion? James that's Anglicanism- do you advocate that catholic Irishmen and Orthodox Russians should abandon their faiths and convert to Anglicanism in order to live in the country.
This is an officially Christian country which tolerates denominations other than Anglicans. It is a measure of the British that we do. So extreme scenarios don't wash here.
Should we be able to close down this blog unless you profess your allegiance to the Christian sovereign of the British isles and the Archbishop fo
Again, extreme scenarios are not what were being discussed.
Why should people be thrown out for demonstrating? It isn't illegal, say if they demonstrated about a road going through a place of natural beauty should they really be thrown out of the country.
If they were joining with other Brits to protest this, fine. It would be a local issue. But if they were protesting as a group of a different nation or culture - yes. They should go.
Second generation should be thrown out? If they later behave badly say ten years after never speaking to thier families before should everyone be thrown out. Furthermore where should they go- particularly if they don't have citizenship elsewhere and can't speak another language.
They should realize in this situation they are an immigrant family. Their decision to leave it is no consideration if they are involved in violence on the grounds of their former culture. You've answered your own question here. If they're estranged, then there IS no other family to throw out with them.
The purpose of saying 'with their families' was so that the family takes responsibility for the ne'er-do-well. Family pressure is going to work a thousand times better than official pressure.
Last question- we wouldn't torture and would discard people but what about sending people to places where we know that they would suffer barbaric tortures or even death.
If they knew the score and the rules by which they're in this country, then the thought of deportation back to such a situation is a very strong deterrent. But in all your assumptions here, we're not speaking of the average person with average life issues but with malcontented ne'er-do-wells and these people need to know the consequences quite clearly.
Sorry James I don't buy this post at all. I think there are all sorts of unresolved issues at the centre of it.
Of course there are. It's a first manifesto, which I stated at the end is modifiable to changed circumstances. Thanks, Tiberius, for your patience.