Monday, September 29, 2008

[abortion] the right becomes the norm

Dave Cole is concerned about abortion rights in Ireland, an issue which has been round a long time.

In the days where women still considered their partners' opinion on this, it was put to me in two different situations [I shan't go into details now - sorry to remain vague]. There were medical reasons in both cases and both were accidents, inasfaras any grown, sentient woman could, with care, prevent this or cause it to be prevented.

No matter. It happened and that was that. It's going to sound very weak but I couldn't give an answer as I was undecided, as I still am today. I do see the "murder" argument and I do see that it was a simple impossibility at the time to have the child. Possibly some men can walk away from decisions like this and not care less but it haunted me for a very long time and still threatens to, along with other things I've done.

I wish I could be as certain as both lobbies. I wish I knew definitively that it was wrong or that it was the least worst choice.

Where I feel there is firmer ground is in decrying the attitude of some women who feel that any accident can be remedied this way [although it doesn't seem too pleasant a process to me]. It is always meant to be a last resort, preventable in the main and not forming part of any "family planning". It should never be planned and it should never be a reasonable fallback position.

Whether it is an option of last resort - who knows?


  1. I find myself agreeing with all your points here. I also think that the decision to have an abortion will have a lasting emotional effect which I suspect will always remain.

  2. Abortion right is indeed a dilemma..can't agree with you more on those points you made clear...and pondering on those you left vague..

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    see you again,

  3. As with so many moral questions, it is not black and white. While I could never do it myself, once you have had a child I don't see how any woman can do it, except for medical reasons, I am pro choice on the whole.

    To go back to the days when women did it anyway, in unsafe conditions with unqualified people or to put doctors into the position of being criminals if they do perform abortions is not acceptable.

    But I do think it is an option too freely available and chosen and it certainly is allowable at far too advanced a stage of pregnancy.

  4. I think this is like any legilation, whereby if two acts contradict each other-like the right to freedo of speech and expression versus inciting hate crimes- one has to give precedence to the act/law/right which most favours society as a whole.

    I doubt any woman is casual about an abortion, or sees it as a fall back which makes being responsible less of an issue.

    I consider it 'murder' but it would more deplorable that women have no control over the reproductive lives, being forced to carry children they do not want,can't deal with, especially when the circumstances of the conception may be less than pleasant-IE rape, incest, etc.

  5. To JMB- I think that you have clearly not thought of the issue.
    You make a sweeping statement that you could never do it, but what if you were raped?
    What if , after your children grew up, and your husband was dead against another child- you got pregnant at 50, when you just did not have the energy to start all over again?
    People, when presented with such choices, find they can do things they never thought possible, so don't be so judgemental. :)

  6. Ubermouth, I have thought through the issue over many years and as I said I could not do it myself. The instances you have stated would not change my mind. The one instance in fact that might have changed my mind would be a very serious medical issue but down's syndrome would not fall under that category.

    But you will note I said I am pro choice so how is that judgmental?

  7. Pro-choice is a euphemism for pro-abortion, isn't it? Excuse the ignorance. Pro-life is letting babies live, no?

  8. was following the thread...
    I understand pro-choice and pro-life in the same terms as you say, James Higham

  9. Pro-choice describes the political and ethical view that a woman should have complete control over her fertility and pregnancy. This entails the guarantee of reproductive rights, which includes access to sexual education; access to safe and legal abortion, contraception, and fertility treatments; and legal protection from forced abortion. Individuals and organizations who support these positions make up the pro-choice movement.

    Some people who are pro-choice see abortion as a last resort and focus on a number of situations where they feel abortion is a necessary option. Among these situations are those where the woman was raped, her health or life (or that of the fetus) is at risk, contraception was used but failed, or she feels unable to raise a child. Some pro-choice moderates, who would otherwise be willing to accept certain restrictions on abortion, feel that political pragmatism compels them to oppose any such restrictions, as they could be used to form a slippery slope against all abortions.

    I think I fall into the last resort category personally but even more restrictive than this definition.

  10. The issue isn't black and white. Even with the limit at 24 weeks, there are a lot of shades of grey.

    I am generally of the opinion that person best placed to make the decision is also the person who has the right to make the decision - the woman.


  11. A woman has to have control over her body,period. It's not a matter for the Government to impose their will/bill on.

    Pro choice is not pro abortion necessarily , James. It's pro a woman having control over her ovaries.

    Personally, if one wants to legislate abortion then one must also look at legislating how many children men,especially ones how do not support, should be allowed to bring into this world.
    THEN the male dominated Government would get out of the bedrooms of the nation.