Sunday, August 02, 2009

[wicca, witchcraft and satanism] macavity's not there


OK, so let's get on with angering half my readers.


Gavin and Yvonne Frost's book The Witches Bible states:

When a child develops to a stage where the physical attributes of reproduction are present, he can become a full member of the coven. The parents relinquish the spiritual guidance of the children to the coven, and warn them that temporal authority will also soon be outside the family.

It is hoped by Wicca that the first full sexual experience will take place in the plesant [sic] surroundings of the coven and that the spiritual as well as the physical aspects of the experience will lead the child to a complete life.

The physical attributes of male and female virginity are destroyed at the youngest possible age, either by the mother or by a doctor. In the female case, the hymen is painlessly broken surgically. In the male case, the mother makes absolutely sure that the foreskin can be drawn fully back by cutting the underside attachment membrane.

At the last sabbat or eshbat before the initiation, the female novice is given the sacred phallus and the instruction sheet in Table 5 so that she can learn to insert and remove the phallus quickly and comfortably. She is also taught how she should lie and what she should do during the initiation ceremony.

You have been entrusted with two phali [sic]; these are in your care until your initiation. ...you have three weeks to prepare your muscles for introitus. Your father or your sponsor will help you if you have any difficulties or pain.

Nice.

Wiki says Gavin Frost founded the Church and School of Wicca with his wife Yvonne Frost in 1968, and he is currently the Archbishop of the Church of Wicca and a director of the School of Wicca.

Despite the original publication of The Witches Bible and the continued publication as A Good Witches Bible, the Frosts have received much support from pagan leaders, festivals, and organizations:

1. Isaac Bonewits – Helped create the website which promotes The Good Witches Bible
2. Janet Farrar and Stewart Farrar – Friends for decades according to a video made by the Farrars and Frosts.
3. Margot Adler – Worked on a video project with the Frosts.


You may meet him in a by-street, you may see him in the square--
But when a crime's discovered, then Macavity's not there!


On investigating Wicca, a surprising phenomenon keeps repeating itself. Not unlike Macavity, the mystery cat, Wiccans seem to be ''in the area of'' or "having similar elements to" or "being accused of connections with" so many bizarre and perverse happenings but in each and every one - Wiccans are not guilty and it is only hateful people who are prejudiced against them who are really to blame. People like Christians.

Consider Atlanta, where a series of murders of children took place in 1979-80. The Klan was blamed but the manner of the deaths from asphyxiation gave it a sexual motif. Naturally, the Wiccans were not involved.

However:

Atlanta has long been an occult center. Not only had the Process-Foundation Faith cult opened a chapter there, but there was a home-grown Wicca network run by a witch who called herself Lady Santana, and one Lord Merlin. Lady Santana was also known as Samantha Lerman. Lady Santana's Ravenwood Church of Wicca was granted tax exempt status in the State of Georgia.

There is also another witchcraft coven operating openly there, known as The Avalon Center. It is run by a woman styling herself as Lady Galadriel, High Priestess of the Grove of the Unicorn. The Atlanta Wicca Church changed its name to the Church of the Old Religion in 1979, following the death of a 15-year-old girl.

Here is another case where the Wiccans were totally innocent:

A Santa Maria couple who used the Wiccan religion to lure a teenage girl into having sex was sentenced Thursday. The victim's aunt says the teenage girl met the couple through family friends, who gained her trust through Wicca and drugs.

However, the defence attorney of the Wiccans was quick to state:

"Wicca is not a demon worshiping cult. It's pantheistic, and it was really a secondary issue."

The need to deny again. They claim no connection with Christianity and yet:

In the United States, WICCA's outstanding sponsor is the New York Anglican (Episcopal) diocese, under Bishop Paul Moore. Officially, New York's Anglican Cathedral of St. John the Divine has promoted the spread of WICCA witchery through its Lindisfarne center. The late Gregory Bateson conducted such an operation out of the Lindisfarne center during the 1970s.

The Book of Thoth runs a spirited defence of Wicca here. You can read about Thoth here. Aleister Crowley's updated version is used for Tarot cards. Crowley was a member of The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (or, more commonly, the Golden Dawn), a magical order founded in Great Britain during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, which practiced theurgy and spiritual development.

Wicca has been one of the largest single influences on 20th-century Western occultism. Concepts of magic and ritual at the center of contemporary traditions, such as Wicca and Thelema, were inspired by the Golden Dawn. The three founders, William Robert Woodman, William Wynn Westcott, and Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers were Freemasons and members of Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia.

Crowley himself is generally regarded as steeped in satanism, without technically being one. In his penultimate year, 1946, a mutual friend 'Arnold Crowther' introduced Crowley to 'Gerald B. Gardner'. His meetings with Gardner would later lead to controversy over the authenticity of Gardner’s original 'Book of Shadows'.

Wiki says Gardner:

… wrote some of the definitive texts for the religion of Wicca, which he was instrumental in bringing to public attention through his 1954 book, Witchcraft Today … he has sometimes been referred to as "the father of Wicca".

However, Wicca, which promotes itself as a religion of love and peace, is never actually part of the dark doings of satanism.

Patricia Baird-Windle, founder and executive director of Aware Woman Center for Choice, "portrayed by Rolling Stone as one of the most persecuted women in America … when asked what her religion was … was alleged to have remarked: "My religion is a holy ritual of child sacrifice." "

AWCC has affiliations with the Wiccan Religious Cooperative of Florida and one group working closely with WRCF is the Church of the Iron Oak. They meet weekly for "Wiccan Ways," a teaching seminar at 1220 East Prospect Street, Melbourne. Although witches claim not to believe in the Christian concept of Satan, they do worship "the European Pagan Horned God, who has been depicted as Pan....

Again, nothing to do with satanism but only having "similarities".

Laurie Cabot [a major Wiccan] concurs with the rise of feminist activism within Wiccan covens that worship the Goddess Diana:

"In Dianic covens great emphasis is placed on the Goddess and the role of priestesses. Covens and organizations are matrifocal and center around women's issues. The current women's movement has inspired much of the political activism that some covens engage in.... radical feminism, including lesbianism, has found a place in Dianic covens...."

Montague Summers, Geography of Witchcraft (University Books, New Hyde Park, New York, 1965), wrote of the reign of Louis XIV, [when] witch trials were held in France which exposed a vast network of abortion services and the trafficking of new-borns used for sacrifices in the Sabbats of a High Priestess named la Voisin:

"The child was held over the altar, a sharp gash across the neck, a stifled cry, and warm drops fell into the chalice.... The corpse was handed to la Voisin, who flung it callously into an oven fashioned for that purpose which glowed white hot in its fierceness.

It was proved that regular traffic had been carried on for years with beggar women and the lowest prostitutes, who sold their children for this purpose. At her trial la Voisin confessed that no less than 2,500 babies had been disposed of in this manner...."

Wicca is never responsible for killings and sacrifices. They tell us this. They just happen to be around when it goes on at times, as in the Harris murders:

Harris, who told police he was responsible for killing Kendra Suing, 10, and Alysha Suing, 8, on Jan. 6, 2008, has pleaded not guilty to two charges of first-degree murder and is using an insanity defense. He told police the day of the killings that the girls died while he was casting a spell that "had gone bad."

The jury heard testimony from Sherry Clark of Oro Grande, Calif., about Harris' childhood, including that he was hospitalized three times after suicide attempts. Clark testified that Harris frequently went to her house when he ran away from home. She told the jury Harris' mother was verbally abusive to her son as well as to Clark herself and others, screaming obscenities and telling Clark, a practicing Wiccan, that she would go to hell.

However, everyone can rest easy because an "expert" says Wicca is innocent:

Also testifying for the defense, Helen Berger, a sociology professor at West Chester University in Pennsylvania, explained something of Wicca, satanism and paganism and said Wicca is not about violence and killing. She said Wiccans believe that anything they do, good or bad, comes back to them threefold.

Aidan Kelly's book Crafting the Art of Magic (pp.21-22, 25-26, and 176) makes the point that Wicca is not satanism but the two do have common elements.

Aradia's Gospel of the Witches (originally published in 1899 A.D.), one of Wicca's major sources, stated:

Diana greatly loved her brother Lucifer, the god of the Sun and of the Moon, the god of Light, who was so proud of his beauty, and who for his pride was driven from Paradise.

Another passage says:

And thou shalt teach the art of poisoning,
Of poisoning those who are great lords of all;
Yea, thou shalt make them die in their palaces;
And thou shalt bind the oppressor's soul (with power);
And when ye find a peasant who is rich,
Then ye shall teach the witch, your pupil, how
To ruin all his crops with tempests dire,
With lightning and with thunder (terrible),
And the hail and wind....

You get the idea.

Gnosticism had the peculiarity of inverting God and the devil, making God the bad guy, Lucifer the good guy. Wiccans, though claiming not to be gnostic, nevertheless have this, from Aradia:

And when the priests or the nobility
Shall say to you that you should put your faith
In the Father, Son, and Mary, then reply:
Your God, the Father, and Maria are
Three devils....For the true God the Father is not yours.

Wiccanism appears to be an eclectic attempt to emulate the pre-Christian gods and practices or rather, to reassert them in an era of what they perceive as waning Christian influence. An example is the worship of Hecate by some Wiccans, often referred to as the Left Path, which is Luciferian double speak for devil worshippers.

More on the Left Hand [or path]:


Wiccans spend much time having to defend themselves from scurrilous and baseless charges, from all sides, of being devil worshippers which, if so, brings in child sacrifices, black masses and all the rest of it. To be charitable, if the Wiccan contention is accepted, then how do they explain the Watchers?

The Watchers are briefly mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6, and have been a source of controversy for many years. Gen 6:4:

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

Al Manning's Helping Yourself with White Witchcraft refers to Azazel. Paul Huson, in Mastering Witchcraft, p12, wrote that Azael was “one of the modern witch’s gods” and yet Azazael is considered demonic by both Jews and Christians.

The two religions claiming that Azazel is not evil are Wicca and satanism. Coincidence, of course. They say the Watchers are good.

Full stop. Period. End of discussion.

There seems to be an awful lot of notice taken, by Wicca, of the negative elements of Judaism and Christianity. For a religion which predates Christianity, why would this be?

Diane Vera is a self-confessed satanist. It's interesting, for the moment, to look at the difference between the two religions, not from the Wiccan side but now from her side. She states:

Wicca as we now know it is derived from 19th-century occult philosophy -- including literary Satanic philosophy, among others -- projected onto a non-Christian Goddess and God, plus some de-Christianized Golden Dawn style ceremonial magick, plus assorted turn-of-the-century British folklore, more recently re-shaped by neo-Pagan scholarship and by modern feminist and ecological concerns. At least several different sides of Wicca's convoluted family tree can be traced to 19th-century literary Satanism, some forms of which had more in common with present-day Wicca than with present-day Satanism.

Wiccans are at pains to claim that it is only the intolerant Christian Right sites which have flooded the internet who try to make out the connections of Wicca and satanism.

Diane Vera continues:

My point here is not that Wiccans shouldn't use the words "witch", "coven", and "sabbat". My point is that if they do use these and other diabolical-witchcraft trappings, they should accept responsibility for the consequences. Wiccans certainly should not blame Satanists for Wicca's own public-relations difficulties, as some Wiccans do.

Good to hear that from the Enemy itself. There is almost an honesty to the Old Foe in that he goes about his business, undermining the Logos but merely disdaining the eclectic Wiccan who plays with fire without realizing what [usually] she is doing.

I never thought I'd ever cheer a satanist on but how about this from Diane?

Oddly enough, of the many Wicca-based forms of neo-Paganism, one of the most "Satanic" (in terms of 19th-century literary Satanism) is feminist Goddess religion, despite its frequent omission of even the "Horned God". See, for example, some of Mary Daly's writings. When it comes to inverting and parodying Christian symbolism, Daly's wordplay does it better than an old-fashioned Black Mass.

Daly also reclaims and venerates almost every demonized female category conceivable, from Furies to Hags. And let's not forget the many feminists who venerate Lilith, a Jewish folkloric near-equivalent of the Christian Satan. Lilith never made it to the status of a full-fledged anti-god, but otherwise her myth is almost identical to the Christian Satan myth: banished for her pride, she became a dreaded demon and was even blamed for people's sins, especially sexual ones.

Finally, she says:

In their attempts to dissociate themselves from Satanism, Wiccans have tended to distort their own history.

It was mentioned earlier that the danger in Wicca is playing with fire. The motif has been used in the world of letters for eons and it constitutes the basis of many films, e.g. the mumbo-jumbo Mummy series – awakening that which should not be awoken.

Watch Pyramids of Mars.

A faith healer in Russia told me specifically not to invoke certain names after I brought them up in conversation. These were names invoked in Wicca and though Wiccans are sucked into their own mumbo-jumbo mix of revised Egyptology, Celtic and other traditions, they really are playing with fire because they either know full-well whom they're invoking or else they are innocents abroad and that's a one-way road to satanism.

They might think that stone circles, dancing naked under the moon and ritual sex are cool things; they might think that it's some sort of reassertion of Old Celtic traditions; they might think that Stonehenge is not the sacrificial site it is but unearthed skeletons say otherwise.

Merle Severy, "The Celts," National Geographic (May 1977), pages 625-626, describes "the eve of Samhain... the start of the Celtic new year":

According to the Dinshenchas, a medieval collection of "the lore of prominent places, firstborn children were sacrificed before a great idol to ensure fertility of cattle and crops. Samhain eve was a night of dread and danger. At this juncture of the old year and the new, our world and the otherworld opened up to each other. The dead returned, ghosts and demons were abroad, and the future could be seen.. . .

Behind such Halloween games as bobbing for apples lie Celtic divination arts to discern who would marry, thrive, or die in the coming year. Behind the masks and mischief, the jack-o'lanterns and food offerings, lurk the fear of malevolent spirits and the rites to propitiate them.

The classical author Diodorus Siculus also reported scenes of human sacrifice [by the Druids]:

When they attempt divination upon important matters they practice a strange and incredible custom, for they kill a man by a knife-stab in the region above his midriff. After the sacrificial victim fell dead...they foretell the future by the convulsions of his limbs and the pouring of his blood. [Ancient Wisdom and Secret Sects (Alexandria, VA: Time-Life Books), pages 17-19.]

And what of the neo-pagan claim that the Celts did not go in for human sacrifices?

The 1984 discovery of a sacrificial victim in Cheshire, England, helps validate the reality of ritualistic human sacrifice. The well-preserved young man had apparently belonged to an elite social class in the second century BC. After two sharp blows to the head, he had been strangled. Then, like the countless sacrifices to Aztec and Mayan gods, his body had been drained of the human blood needed to please and appease their god(s).

... or this?

At Windmill Hill, near Avebury, Wiltshire, England, there are evidences of Druidical worship, but no windmill. 'Win' is the Celtic word for 'eye,' and 'Win-Melk' is the 'eye of Moloch.' Dr. Maurice, in "Indian Antiquities," says, "the Druids worshipped the sun under the title of Moloch, so we are certain that worship was derived to them from their Eastern ancestors."

The British towns Melch-bourne in Bedfordshire, and Melc-combe in Dorset, both retain evidence of the worship of Moloch in early times.

"And what have these sacrifices to do with us?" ask the Wiccans. Our religion is not based on Celtic rituals. Isn't that interesting because the Celts themselves say:

Like Wicca, and like the Celtic culture upon which it is based, modern Celtic paganism embodies a strong reverence for nature.

As for human sacrifice, if Wicca is indeed based on the old ways and they do claim that it is, that's what they're worshipping. They might like to think, in their sweet, love-everyone and mother nature way, that their religion is sanitized of the more gruesome aspects but the the spirits they're invoking think otherwise.

As this is a family blog, we shan't even mention the Wiccan use of menstrual blood in rituals and the particular way it's daubed about and consumed.

Beltane is also celebrated, by the way and this is based on Baal [Bel] of the sun, with that fiery Molochian aspect to it – orgies and human sacrifice being the order the day in the rituals but fire being the main motif. The Wiccan rituals don't involve this, they say - just the satanic ones.

Wiccans are also wont to say, ''One of Christianity's party lines is that the pagan religion of Wicca or witchcraft is what leads to Satanism. These pagans don't even believe in Satan!'' That's like saying, as one walks in the dark to the edge of an abyss, ''I don't believe in abysses.''

Some Wiccans and Neo-pagans may not be aware of the sinister traditions and associations of their religion, preferring to think it's just a nice naked romp and bonk in an oak grove and that they don't do any of this dark stuff [although it is claimed that some covens do] – it's Macavity again – never actually guilty but in the general area.

And who does Wicca and modern paganism in general suck in, today?

Accurate numbers are impossible to obtain because of the decentralized nature of the religion, and because most Wiccans remain underground for reasons of personal safety. Some poll data indicates that the numbers of adherents is doubling every 30 months. Wicca appears to be growing most rapidly among teens.

The most impressionable – of course.

The tragedy is not what modern pagans get up in their own groves and within their rings of stones but that their ideas now permeate world policy and rebound, by a cascade effect, on the greater population of the world.

In conclusion

Let's give the benefit of the doubt and accept that most Wiccans don't even know that their faith and tree-hugging has these more sinister aspects associated with it, which it does ... by definition. Occult means "hidden", doesn't it and these aspects are hidden? On the basis of their romps in the fields, they'd even say I'm evil or at a minimum - misguided, in broad-brushing all Wiccans in the same way.

Look, it's no different to the Masons and many other cults. The lower orders, the Blue Orders, let's borrow a term - just don't know what goes on above and how they're subtly directed. And yet the warning signs are there for those would see, for those open-eyed enough to find out.

Let's just say that all the associations of Wicca with satanic rituals are pure coincidence, that their scriptures, drawing heavily from the most distasteful aspects of the occult, are pure coincidence; let's just say that Wiccans are the most maligned group on the planet today, let's just concede all those things.

One thing I can tell you though is I'm not going to any field or grove with a group of robed Wiccans at night, for fear of ending up the Wicca Man, especially after this post. Call me superstitious and a malign influence - I'm not the taking the chance, given all of the above. And as for entrusting my child for babysitting ... well.


18 comments:

PaganPride said...

I probably know a great deal more about wiccan and witchcraft than you do - and you do talk some rubbish.

For all your quoting may I point out that the witch's bible was written by Janet and Stewart Farrar, Gavin and Yvonne Frost wrote the Witch's Magical Handbook and they talk about the same nonsence you do.

Don't try tarnishing me with your satan - only christians and their ilk divide their divinity into a supremely impossible "good" entity (god)and an unlikely "bad" entitly (The Devil"! You created him - you keep him.

Wiccans mostly recognise duality in divinity acknowledging that life requires balance - and that mean between the sexes as well.

You certainly haven't angered me, or even annoyed me: But I have had a wry smile at the silliness of this kind of "Burn them at the stake" attitude. Have you thought if I am as evil, as wicked or as powerful as you seem to suggest I am - I would be a really bad enemy to make!!!!!!!!!!

James Higham said...

"I probably know a great deal more about wiccan and witchcraft than you do - and you do talk some rubbish."

Let's analyse this defence:

1. The claim to superior knowledge.

This is why I use only linked sources and excerpts from your own scriptures. None of the material in the post came from me.

You know more than me but do you know more than the practising pagans from whom this material is drawn? Did the Frosts not write the opening quote? Are you really saying that?

If they do not represent Wiccan ideas, then why would notable pagans accept them? Why are they a major force in paganism?

Pagans always try to distance themselves form bad press but it still comes out every so often, doesn't it. like the cloven hoof.

2. You allege that I talk rubbish without debunking the quotes, especially the satanist ones.

You then fail to mention Kenson, Steve (Author), Pui-Man Law, Stephanie (Illustrator) who actually did write the Witch's Handbook so I'm now wondering how much you do actually know.

Either way, your actual evidence debunking each point in this post is what most readers are looking for, not vague allegations [which I expected, of course] that I talk rubbish.

Please fisk each of the allegations - I'd be interested to see that.

"Don't try tarnishing me with your satan - only christians and their ilk ...."

Oh but I'm not tarnishing you at all. Look what I wrote again:

Wiccans are at pains to claim that it is only the intolerant Christian Right sites which have flooded the internet who try to make out the connections of Wicca and satanism.

Look, it's no different to the Masons and many other cults. The lower orders, the Blue Orders, let's borrow a term - just don't know what goes on above and how they're subtly directed. And yet the warning signs are there for those would see, for those open-eyed enough to find out.

The whole thrust of this post is that you are invoking powers you know not of.

Unless you are one of the adepts, of course, in which case you're a troll.

Thanks for your input so far, Pagan Pride. :)

James Higham said...

I just left a comment at a Pagan site. Let's see if it's published. :)

By the way, Gavin Frost [with or without wife] has appeared on national television's Phil Donahue Show, PM Magazine, Tom Snyder's Tomorrow Show and others, at many events serving the Neo-Pagan community such as Stones Rising, Sirius Rising, Pagan Pride Day, and the Starwood Festival, and in newspaper and magazine articles across the United States.

It appears that he's a respected Wiccan priest when he doesn't say anything negative to Wicca and yet when the Wiccan practice is exposed, as in the opening quote - urging the Wiccan community to rape young girls - suddenly he doesn't represent Wicca.

Macavity's not there, eh?

Oh and I double checked on the Frosts' book, PP - it is indeed called, as I stated:

The Witch's Bible.

lilith said...

Has it occurred that this Gavin Frost and his associates are about as representative of Witches as The Muslim Council of Great Britain is of Muslims?

James Higham said...

Welcome, lilith. You say that but regular Wiccans like Farrar support the Frosts plus the others I quoted.

Then, after that, there is all the other material - the Frosts formed a small portion of the post.

Are you saying Gardner also is not a Wiccan?

Have you read any Gardner? Most illuminating.

Poimandres said...

You need to learn a lot, James.
You are mixing gods and non-gods and all their attributes are scrambled.
The book of THOTH is real, and very old.
Vatican hang-ons thought they had found it, and translated it .
They hadn't found it, but it led to various incorrect assumptions about the age of the book and it's authenticity.

jams o donnell said...

Gardner was an old goat who cut and pasted most of his rituals from other sources.

As for an Archbishop of the Church of Wicca!!! What a ludicrous idea

James Higham said...

"You need to learn a lot, James."

We all do, even you, Poimandres but if you are referring to Thoth, by do you assume I don't know, in a close way?

Thoth is old indeed and so is Lilit - they are not deceased.

You mention the Vatican but it must be apparent to you by now that I don't come from that direction at all, quite another.

In fact, as can be gleaned from Diane Vera's comment on Wicca, it is they who have learning to do, especially the young who are sucked in through the vortex of greenness and love-for-all.

Wicca is a mish-mash of gods and non-gods, as you put it and through their lack of understanding, are dealing with forces they know not of.

I know of them well because I am in a camp which knows intimately with whom we're dealing. Hence a respect for the power they still wield.

This is why I referred to playing with fire.

James Higham said...

Sorry, Jams - our comments crossed over.

Gardner was closely connected with Crowley and as you say, this is why occultists who have the knowledge respect these two very little, except insofar as they broadened the appeal of the occult, especially to the young and impressionable.

Pagans are keen to deconstruct the principle that there are opposing forces and so the process of de-Christianization [my capital C] is such a priority.

The Christian antecedents recognize the duality as real but the other side has done everything to diffuse the one central enemy into countless gods, from Ea to Maitreya, infusing them with reality, actual existence, which Poimanderes is aware of - hence his comments.

So yes, he is not wrong but he is blinded by the smokescreen - all of these come back to the same central character every time, whatever the latest manifestation is.

Pagan Pride reveals his ignorance by saying that "we", whoever we are, invented the dark side.

It far predates Christianity, a comparatively late arrival on the scene.

If, by "we", he refers to Romanism, what has that to do with the issue?

This battle has been going on a long, long time.

James Higham said...

Mini-quiz for Poimmandres:

1. Is Tubal-Cain Vulcan?

2. Hermes Trismegistus – why three times?

3. Do accept that “intelligent baboon” is not an insult to Thoth?

4. What is the second book of The Divine Pynander known as?

5. Was Clement Christian?

lilith said...

Blimey, what if you are an illiterate witch? What if all you know is a few herbs and how to protect yourself/others? What if you don't know any other witches at all? I think they made it all up.

James Higham said...

:)

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Fairynne said...

I'm sorry, I just stumbled upon this page and would like to say a few words.

First of all, the current path I am persuing is Wiccan. Yes, I am young. I'm 18. But my path seems so different that what you have laid out as the pagan or wiccan way. For one, I will not have sex until after I'm married. I'm a hopeless romantic, and believe in true love. Mock me all you want for it, but there it is. I also don't believe I could ever hurt another. I cry when I accidentally hit an animal in the road. I also plan to join the Peace Corps, to help others who truly need it. No matter how hard it will be on me, they have it worse. I believe in Love, Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. I don't judge you, any of you, for your beliefs. This is what you believe of Wiccans; fine. As long as you are happy with your life. We all have the right to persue happiness, to worship as we please. If that worship hurts others, yes, it is wrong and they should be punished by their government. But otherwise, why can't we simply accept others as they are? Why judge an entire group of people based on a few? Yes, I see your evidence, James, and I must admitt, I think the Frosts are sick freaks. I always have. I just don't like them. But if other people choose that lifestyle, who am I to tell them no? Do you understand what I'm getting at, here? My motto, the Wiccan Rede: "And it HARM NONE, do what ye will." If they DO harm others, they're not really Wiccan. Just using it to their own advantage in a sick fantasy to gain power they don't truly know of. I for one don't even practice magick. I just have my beliefs, and I'm happy with them. I don't know why I felt the need to write this. I just...did. So there you go, if you ever look at this again. I wish you a good life.

James Higham said...

This deserves more than a one line answer and I have to go out now. I shall keep the reminder on the desktop, come back and reply late tonight if poss.

James Higham said...

The issue is that the devotees are always the "nice people" such as you and the driving force is otherwise. It's like "diversity" and "positive discrimination". Sounds noble but the implications, especially in the UK, have been horrific.

We get into a philosophical stand-off here. Wicca doesn't accept the good-evil dichotomy and so those who do, e.g. the satanists, can use Wicca for their ends, without Wicca either being aware of that or accepting that it is possible.

It is really not meant to be patronizing, even if it comes across like this but it's a bit like The Shire and their way of living, seeing signs of other things out there, e.g. Strider but not knowing, until the threat is upon it, what has actually been going on out there - a game of life and death.

This world is in a very critical time right now - there is an enemy abroad whom many of us are fighting [not in a religious way]and many of these non religious people recognize it as "evil", if that means "the thing which shouldn't be".

Fairynne - your motto is a fine one and you're obviously a good person. If the post seemed to be attacking such as you, it wasn't. It is attacking, let's call it "the force" which is inexorably moving us towards slavery and the new feudalism.

At this stage, the battle is still political.

Fairynne said...

Hmm. I definitely see where you're coming from, James. And thank you for clarifying for me. (I must say, kudos for the Lord of the Rings reference!) I completely understand that there are people out there whom we could consider "evil" or, put simply, narcissistic bastards. (Please forgive me for my language.) I suppose politics have never been my strong suit; I've always been a more emotional or spiritual person, and very much a humanitarian. I think your post struck a chord because it seemed to be attacking ALL Wiccans, simply for being Wiccan. As much as I hate to say this (because I feel it somewhat goes against my beliefs of "judge not" [I try to pull a Nick Carraway as much as possible]) I really don't mind your attacks on the Frosts and those like them, simply because I think they're perverting something good to meet their own sick ends. And that's probably how most of the original "traditionalists" were. Alexander, Gardner, and the more feminist Dianic seem to be twisting things to make themselves seem more important. Tis sad how so many in the world have turned out, non? Still, I like to see the good in people. And I see the good in YOU. You seem like a great person, and I admire your passion.

But I suppose you've had enough of my rambling, yes? I apologise. Once I get going I can't seem to stop. Thank you for your insights, truly. They've been very enlightening, and frankly, pretty fun. If you'd like to do some more reading in your search for the truth, or at least maybe some more insights,

http://www.wicca.com/celtic/ramble/ramble0.htm

I really like this man. These are just some of his ramblings, but in another part of the sight he goes on to talk about what he believes Wicca to be. He's quite funny. I wish I could have talked to him before he died.

ANYWHO, best wishes, my friend!

Fairynne

hiluhriehope said...

I would like to say something. I, too, am Wiccan. However, I think Gavin and Yvonne Frost are sick, sick people. I think Gardener, the founder of modern day Wicca, is also a bit kooky and to be quite honest, I haven't read much by him.
As someone who posted above said, "An it harm NONE, do as ye will." Anyone who doesn't follow that isn't really a Wiccan and should not be used as representation for the whole of Wicca - no matter how "famous" or "popular" they are in Wiccan circles, society, whatever. For example, the disgusting pedophilic BS that Gavin and Yvonne Frost wrote most Wiccans don't even know about. There is a new version of the book with those parts omitted and that is what most Wiccans have read. Thankfully I heard about that crap before I ever picked up one of their books. I have now struck them off my "to read" list because as far as I'm concerned, that is harm and it negates anything else they have to say.
Along the same lines, things like sacrifices, murders, etc - Wicca is never involved. It is impossible for real Wicca to be involved in such things. Again, I say, "Harm None." If someone puts the Wiccan label on such heinous acts, that is another issue entirely, but the blame still should not fall on Wicca as a religion. It falls on a/some sick individual(s) who found a pretty scapegoat for their misdeeds.
There's more I wanted to write, but the baby's crying so I have to go.
Toodles.