Monday, August 03, 2009

[good characterization] can get you through 1168 pages


Commenting on Ayn Rand being adept with her prose, Tom Paine commented:

That's true, but she's a hopeless novelist, and for precisely the reason Juliette nailed in the first quote. Rand cannot create a convincing character. Having slogged painfully through 1168 pages, I admire her as a thinker but I cannot begin to imagine why she chose this vehicle for her thoughts.

Tom continues:

Great writers create living, breathing characters. Sherlock Holmes is as real as you or I and will outlast both us and his author. Dickens populated a small town with his characters, each of them - even the minor ones - a recognisable individual. John Irving is the greatest living author in English precisely because he creates magnificent characters we can love, hate and care about.

He hits the nail on the head with "we can love, hate and care about". Indeed and not only that but the author has to let his characters run free, to emote freely. There's nothing worse than a contrived plot where the characters are so obviously controlled by the prejudices of the author, like marionettes on a string.

An example is this:

"There won't be any revolution in America," said Isadore. Nikita agreed. [Linklater, Juan in America, 1933]

Chesterton was one to contrive to place characters woodenly, have them stand or sit, immobile in one place, get them suddenly angry and then drop back to being calm again. P.G. Wodehouse was not immune either. I've just conceded defeat on Money for Nothing and The Girl in Blue.

The trouble is characterization. There is a female, Pat, whose first move is to urge her male friend to confront a bull in a field, just to see if the bull is as dangerous as depicted. Even if we overlook the no doubt lovely name Pat, lovely in real life but hardly the thing for a novel, there is her nasty nature and she's one of the central protagonists.

I lost all interest at that point. There was no anger, no resentment, just indifference to anything she subsequently did or how many men were going to die for her. And when a succession of Johns and Hughs and whoever then appeared, that was that - the books will be returned to the library today.

So, it's quite a thing to engage the reader.

In my own novel, the problem, it seems to me, is not in the action - things happen at random and I don't direct them but just type and record them as they unfold ... but the problem is in the characters and in the basic premise in the first place. Not everyone wants to read the doings of a glutton for punishment and the feisty females around him, especially if, erroneously, they think the main character is the author. Also, the premise that society is progressively disintegrating and the characters are trying to adjust to that, seems far fetched to many.

It's a fine line, this matter of which characters "grab" us and which we can take or leave. Maugham had this habit of making himself obnoxiously cold and unforgiving in his short stories. This from the Lotus Eater:

On the way he asked me what I had thought of Wilson.

"Nothing," I said. "I don`t believe there`s a word of truth in your story."

"Why not?"

"He isn`t the sort of man to do that sort of thing."

"How does anyone know what anyone is capable of?"

"I should put him down as an absolutely normal man of business who`s retired on a comfortable income from ill-edged securities, I think your story`s just the ordinary Capri tittle- little."

This was upfront near the beginning of the story. Now I can tell you, if I had a "friend" like this, he'd soon be an ex-friend. It's all well and good not to believe someone but he could have said, "Well, let's wait and see," or "Well, I don't know if I can agree with you there," or, "I'd be interested to know for sure."

As it is, one loses all interest in what Maugham's first person character thinks after that. It's so difficult to engage a reader in the first person, unless it is a brave tale of woe.

So yes, Tom, 1168 pages of Ayn Rand seems a tall order to me as well. 1168 pages of Dreiser would also seem a tall order. 1168 pages of, say, Josephine Tey, would be a delight.

17 comments:

  1. Rand was and is a valuable piece in the battle for the world through the battle of definitions. I don't remember her books after all these years, but your description of her characters makes a lot of sense upon seeing her person. She shared with her enemies the atheist lack of common humility or love of the individual (insert usual disclaimers). Admiration she was capable of, love she was not.
    She attracted similar kinds in what are now self-procalimed "Randians". It is quite the cult, religious atheists of the Ann God. They expouse most of the things I believe in, and remind me with Chesterton of how close polished steel is to rust.
    You really are what your legacy is.
    Whatever the alloy was to make her steel stainless, she didn't have it; the great ones did.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Admiration she was capable of, love she was not.

    Oh, I like that very much. That's set me off thinking of another post. :)

    ReplyDelete
  3. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding the merits and faults of Rand's writing style. However, I for one, disagree with the comments made about the quality of the characterization in her novels. There are a lot of different types of people. As individuals, we can look at the world in quite different ways; we may hold different values; we may pay more or less attention to our surrounding than others; we can analyze and organize our thoughts in a variety of different ways; and so on. It may be surprising to some, but there are those of us who do find a deep resonance with the characters in Rand's novels. We can see aspects of ourselves portrayed by the heroes, and find their actions not just intelligible, but inspiring. For me and others, Rand creates magnificent characters that I can love, hate and care about. I will grant you that Rand writes at a level of romanticized abstraction that is far different from the style employed by many contemporary authors. But this difference is certainly not, in itself, an indication of poor writing.

    If you personally cannot connect with Rand's characterization or style, I have no problem understanding that. But I do have to wonder why so many people find it necessary to belittle her literary efforts and attempt to categorize them as talentless claptrap, rather than casting their views as more a mater of personal taste? While I do believe that there are valid criticisms that could be made of Rand's writings, I also believe that any objective assessment of her work has to include a recognition that she was a master craftsman and produced work far and away above the literary norm. Possibly a better understanding of human diversity would make her work more accessible. I would suggest starting with the book Please Understand Me by Keirsey and Bates, as a way of discovering how others, different from ourselves, approach their lives.

    Regarding the comments of xlbrl, I, like Rand, am an atheist, and am greatly offended by his or her remarks that attempt to cast me, and others who do not believe in the existence of god, as sub-human. These comments show a blind bigotry that does not accord with reality. We Objectivists are thinking beings who have arrived at our views on god just as we arrive at our views on all other matters; through critical, focused thought. We do not follow Rand as a replacement for our missing god; we align ourselves with Rand's observations because we judge them to be true. By categorizing us as unthinking "cult" members, it makes it easy for you to dismiss us without having to deal with our views and arguments. If that is how you choose to live your lives, sobeit. But I refuse to let you get away with idiotic comments such as that Rand and I are incapable of experiencing love. A belief in God may be the sole source of ethics and emotion for you, but do not confuse your peculiar limitation with how others of us manage to function. Despite my failure to acknowledge the existence of a god, I do not have any problem in developing and living by a comprehensive moral code. And I have no difficulty experiencing the full range of human emotions. Under normal circumstances, I am happy to let people express their religious views without comment. However, these truly insulting remarks make me wonder who's soul is actually stainless and who's is rusting away?

    Regards,
    --
    C. Jeffery Small

    ReplyDelete
  4. Jeffery - first, welcome.

    I'm not sure that Xlbrl is the deist you imagine - that's more me but almost all my friends are atheists or agnostics so what does that say about me?

    Re Rand. I have no opinion but put Tom Paine's and others then commented. Your comments are most welcome because it rounds out the picture of her.

    Sometimes my posts are to rant or fisk but with ones like this - I come to learn.

    ReplyDelete
  5. J Small--
    Will Rogers was remarkable for his homespun sagacity, and his accuracy. One observation in particular is the first thing I examine myself by when I am offended--A remark hurts generally in propotion to the truth it contains.

    I am not offended. You certainly are.

    My parenthetical exeptions were for Milton Freidman, Friedrich von Hayek, Theodore Dalrymple, and a few million atheist I don't know, but you were too busy being offended to notice. Yes, I do believe they are exceptions to the general rule. Dalrymple believes so too.

    Rand was a woman who died alone and very poorly, and who was closer to Lenin in temperment than Lincoln. The Randian temperment is far closer to Marxism than any other, even as their observations are not. That does concerm me.

    The single great quality Randians share with Marxists is, in fact, rationalism. It sounds like a terribly important quality, and one that we would be sorry to be without. But if we did not learn what rationalism can do from Lenin, learn it from Beirce: logic is the art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.

    Thinking is not Critical because you say it is, or socialist say it is. Your Rational, Critical, Objectivist thinking (no modesty there) took you directly to the opinion that I was a bigot (I could not be less offended), idiotic, limited, and expressing religious views. Since of the four, I am only limited, Randian thinking puts you at 25%. That's not even good in baseball.

    I never dismissed Rand; I am cautious around her. I did not dismiss you until you actually make your argument. Actually, you made my argurment.

    Our intellect is not the most subtle, the most powerful, the most appropriate instrument for revealing truth. It is life that, little by little, example by example, permits us to see that what is most important to our heart, or to our mind, is learned not by reasoning but through other agencies. Then it is that intellect, observing their supremacy, abdicates its control to them upon reasoned grounds and agrees to become their collaborator--
    Proust

    James--Do not hesitate to delete my remarks, since they may cross your over your guidelines. I may have other people to offend today I don't even know about!

    ReplyDelete
  6. My response shall be as a post which will appear around 13:30 today, people. :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. James:

    Thank you for your kind welcome. It is always a pleasure to discuss ideas with people, such as yourself, who are open to at least considering new viewpoints.

    xlbrl:

    I think your understanding of Rand's views is inaccurate. You describe her as a Rationalist and then use this label to associate her with Marxist thought. Nothing could be further from the truth, as she rejected both Rationalism and Empiricism. First, let's examine what Rand had to say on the subject. From the online Ayn Rand Lexicon, here is the entry under Rationalism:

    "[Philosophers came to be divided] into two camps: those who claimed that man obtains his knowledge of the world by deducing it exclusively from concepts, which come from inside his head and are not derived from the perception of physical facts (the Rationalists)—and those who claimed that man obtains his knowledge from experience, which was held to mean: by direct perception of immediate facts, with no recourse to concepts (the Empiricists). To put it more simply: those who joined the [mystics] by abandoning reality—and those who clung to reality, by abandoning their mind."

    And if you care to read a short article on the subject by Shawn E. Klein, please see: Rationalism and Objectivism

    Your attempt to use a person's "temperament" as a means of judging their ideas is ill advised. The validity of Rand's views rise and fall, just as they do for anyone else, solely upon their correspondence with reality, and nothing more. Rand's personality (i.e., temperament) would certainly have a bearing on deciding in what way you would like to structure an inter-personal relationship, but it has no significance when evaluating whether her ideas are correct.

    When you quote Ambrose Bierce on the nature of logic, you do realize that he was being humorously ironic, don't you? I don't know what to make of your claim that we should "learn" from this quote. What Bierce was saying here is the exact opposite of what you appear to be inferring. I think you make yourself clearer later when you say:

    "Our intellect is not the most subtle, the most powerful, the most appropriate instrument for revealing truth."

    This is where we part company and it is this epistemological distinction that makes it impossible for us to ever have a meeting of the minds. As an Objectivist, I hold that the rational (i.e., logical) mind is our only means to comprehending and understanding truth. There is no other mechanism available to us for revealing truth other than the rigorous application of focused observation by way of our senses, coupled to logic-driven analysis. Wherever, and by whatever means you are obtaining your "truths", if they are not subject to direct observation by me, or they are not subject to my application of logical analysis, then they remain your personal subjective experience which have no relevance to my life. You are certainly welcome to your "revealed truths" and to conduct your life accordingly. However, I will stick to the methods of validating truth that have worked for me.

    By the way, I have no axe to grind with anyone here. I have only chimed in to this discussion briefly to attempt to correct what I see as distorted interpretations of Rand's writing and philosophy. And by the way, if you do want to tackle one of Rand's novels, I suggest starting with The Fountainhead. From a purely literary viewpoint, I think it is superior to Atlas Shrugged.

    Regards,
    --
    C. Jeffery Small

    ReplyDelete
  8. Jeffery, I have a post coming up at precisely 13:30 and unwittingly, you have contributed to my new comments policy which will be linked to from my About section.

    I read your current comment with interest.

    ReplyDelete
  9. We all have different tastes and I am prepared to believe some think Ayn Rand's characters well-drawn. I don't think I, at least, belittled her as I expressed great admiration for her as a thinker. You do not belittle me if you say I would make a poor ballet dancer. I fear it is true. If you say I have no merits, I may feel belittled, but you will still be welcome to your opinion. I don't think I said anything that should prevent me from being the friend of any admirer of Rand. I count myself in that number.

    ReplyDelete
  10. You do not belittle me if you say I would make a poor ballet dancer.

    Yes, I wonder if there wasn't a bit of oversensitivity in the comments. Anyway, Ann got a fair go this time round.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I read Atlas Shrugged as an undergraduate - all full of Murray Rothbard and Milton Friedman, Hayek and Nozick - and I have to say that I enjoyed the novel. Lengthy it surely was,but it was and remains fun seeing the ultrastatists destroying an economy bit by bit. She largely misses out inflation and taxation as two of their methods of control, and concentrates on regulation , 'fairness,' and 'safety as their weapons of choice.

    As literature it isn't great, but it did make its point well and [not too heavily] got the philosophy over too. Even though I'm now a conservative and not a libertarian or liberal, I still appreciate its staring into the insatiable gap that is the socialist appetite for power.

    And it was FUN.

    So was 'Starship Troopers,' which got a great message over in pulp fiction form.

    By coincidence, Calling England suggested I might suggest a them for next Monday, so I'm suggesting that we mention, extol, or link to a work of fiction, art, dance, or other piece of our culture that says something about or on behalf of, what is good about our free[ish] and western culture.
    Bloggers tent to attack what they dislike about a society, but I'm suggesting that on 10 August we post a little bit about what's worthwhile and worth saving in our arts, crafts, literature and entertainment.

    The art of freedom


    If Atlas Shrugged is so good, why not post to describe why next Modnay?
    Contrariwise, id Elgar gets you there, then why not link to some, and say why it moves you?

    Or would you rather sit with Michael Moore for an evening: his eyes taped open, and make him watch, say, The Green Berets and High Noon?

    We're the good guys, right? Don't we have the best tunes? And TV? And novels?

    ReplyDelete
  12. J Small-

    I have read the Rand definition of Rationalism that you provided. It is a distinction without a difference. As you will know, there are four branches of rationalism; we can fail in all of them. But I will go to those qualities you acknowledge and embrace, Objectivism and Critical thought. There is no Marxist on the planet who does not believe himself to fail in embracing those applications. A distinction without a difference.
    Proust was indeed right--Our intellect is not the most subtle, the most powerful, the most appropriate instrument for revealing truth.
    It is the most powerful method of creating error. Experience is the oracle of truth. Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. It's a very messy business, as Hayek will tell you. "Most knowledge is obtained not from immediate experience or observation, but in the continuous process of sifting a learned tradition. Our moral traditions, like many other aspects of our culture, developed concurrently with our reason, not as its product. The process of selection that shaped customs and morality could take account of more factual circumstances than individuals could perceive. Surprising and paradoxical as it may seem, these moral traditions outstrip the capacities of reason.'

    To claim one is an Objectivist is the identical if opposite pretention of claiming to be a Progressisve. It wraps and blinds people into their own foolishness. It is when we believe first in our own foolishness that we can make progress.

    To apply Objectivist and Critical thinking, Randians are a cult, or they would not so completely identify with a persons name. Tocqueville considered Burke his teacher, but he was no Burkian. I consider Tocqueville my teacher, but I would not embarrass him too in such a way. Water rises no higher than the resevoir which it came out of.

    To be a Classical Liberal may mean different things, but no Classical Liberal would identify himself through one single man. Marxist do not have this problem. Nor do Randians. Objectively, both are religious cults.

    Randians are worlds better than Marxist, so I don't feel any need to throw your baby out with the bathwater. I'm a special kind of bigot, a tolerant one.

    ReplyDelete
  13. But bigotry xlbri leaves you no space to actually determine what you opponent says- instead you construct a caricature. I am intrigued and mystified by your four categories of rational thought. Let me give you two- a priori and a posteroi modes of thinking- I suggest that even if you learn only from life in forming your views, you are applying a form of reason in order to infer from instances within life to general rules or abstractions about life. Furthermore any further inferences between those laws to make a construction of beliefs are themselves constructed by your reason. To imply that your views are simple 'learnt common sense' is to actually attempt to deny the validity of others arguing against you using reason.

    Experience like any oracle needs interpreters and those are inside your head and can be incorrect!

    ReplyDelete
  14. To imply that your views are simple 'learnt common sense' is to actually attempt to deny the validity of others arguing against you using reason.

    That's assuming, of course,
    Tiberius, that:

    1. the other side is capable of arguing from reason. Tehre is much eveidence that the Left does not do this but rather goes for the invalid defence, e.g. superior knowledge, "anyway, I know what I think" and so on.

    A good example was my pagan post where there were two immediate defences which might have been mounted but they were not availed. Instead, they went for the two defences mentioned before that.

    2. that there is an argment other than reason. For example, socialism is completely unworkable, except in a utopia but still they plug away.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Tom Paine writes:

    "I don't think I said anything that should prevent me from being the friend of any admirer of Rand. I count myself in that number."

    Tom, I agree. I read your original comments with interest and think you are being fair handed, even if we disagree about Rand's literary merits.

    Because you folks appear to be in the UK and I am in the US, there may be some cultural differences with regard to our backgrounds concerning Rand. It is my understanding that, until very recently, Rand's works had not really received widespread attention in Europe (maybe I'm wrong about that), but in the US, there has been a long tradition of people trying to denounce Rand's ideas, not by examining those ides themselves, but by dismissing her as a literary hack, and thereby avoiding having to confront the ideas at all. This dates back to the original reviews of Atlas Shrugged, such as the infamous one by Whittaker Chambers in the National Review that appeared in 1957, and has been ongoing since. Because I have seen this sort of attack methodology so often, I may have overreacted to your comments, and if so, I apologize.

    Regarding Rand's literary methods, she did write frequently on the issue of aesthetics, and a number of her non-fiction essays discussing her artistic approach have been collected into a book titled The Romantic Manifesto, which you might find interesting if you want to further explore her views on theme, plot, character development and her ideas concerning abstraction in art. There are also two other books that were published more recently that are transcriptions of writing courses that Rand once offered. These are titled The Art of Fiction and The Art of Nonfiction, and they go into greater detail regarding her methods and intent.

    Regards,
    --
    C. Jeffery Small

    ReplyDelete
  16. Gracci is correct in suspecting I miscontrued rationalism, when it is really only one in four philosophical concepts used contemporary thinkers educated along scientific and contructionist lines. I can't stop thinking they all believe they are completely rational.

    Long before I read Hayek and Mises I suspected that reason was very like rhetoric, far more the desire to rule the minds of men than discover truths.
    Reason in all its forms has an important but secondary role to play. When reason takes a primary role, it is always to exercise vanity. The American Founders refered to such people as visionary and utopian philosophers. It was not a compliment.
    The test of every religious, political, or educational system is the man which it forms.

    Hayek on reason--
    'As with Aristotle, for who all ordering of human activities was the result of deliberate organization of individual actions by an ordering mind, so too the naive mind can conceive of order only as the result of deliberate arrangement.
    The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. The astonishing fact revealed by economics and biology is that order generated without design can far outstrip plans men consciously contrive.
    The extended order resulted not from human design or intention but spontaneously: it arose from unintentionally conforming to certain traditional and largely moral practices, many of which men tend to dislike, whose significance they usually fail to understand, whose validity they cannot prove, and which have nonetheless fairly rapidly spread by means of an evolutionary selection–the increase of population and wealth–of those groups that happened to follow them. The unwitting, reluctant, even painful adoption of these practices kept those groups together, increased their access to valuable information of all sorts, and enabled them to multiply.'

    That is not a process of reason, and it drives men mad to not believe they design or understand most of those things around them, so they retake control and lose all they had discovered by other means. This process has been repeated many times.

    ReplyDelete
  17. This has turned into a particularly interesting debate which has moved form the original point to that of rationalism et al.

    By no means is this now shut down and if there are further comments, we [the readers] would appreciate them.

    ReplyDelete

Comments need a moniker of your choosing before or after ... no moniker, not posted, sorry.