Monday, July 20, 2009

[paradigm shift required] in the male-female divide


His Girl Friday has commented on a much quoted anonymous poem which sets out all the wonderful things about women and which concludes:

However, if there is one flaw in women, it is that they forget their worth.

This is fine and the sisters are entitled to congratulate each other on being women. HGF commented:

This poem is a nice sentiment, and something I think we ladies should take to heart. However, what I would like to mention, as much as we need to nurture and empower our own spirits, are we taking the time to do this with the man in our life?

Funny that because I was thinking much the same thing. The easiest thing in the world is to eulogize our own gender but I'd really like to see a poem by a woman, eulogizing men and all the wonderful aspects of their character. Then I'd like to see a eulogy on women ... written by a man.

What chance we'd ever see those?

Maybe I'll step up and write one about the ladies. As for the praise of men, one blogger I know with a nice turn of phrase and whom I'm sure would be delighted to extol the virtues of men is Welshcakes. Think I'll write to her and commission a poem.

HGF continues:

What I'm talking about is, do we women take the time to take our eyes off ourselves and our own matters, and nurture the relationship with our partner?

Now let me address my fellow men:

We're quick to see the faults of women but after all, they're human. What of us - are we perfect? I think not. How many of us measure our self-worth by the notches on our belt? How many men over forty would refuse an affair with a younger woman who leaves herself open to our come-on? How faithful are we to our woman, how long are we prepared to listen for and how seriously do we take what our woman says? How many of us respect her?

HGF continues:

Unfortunately, I want to point out that we women are not always direct with what we want, are we? There are those women who play head games (and there are men who do this as well), but what I'm talking about is communication. And communication is not always verbal, is it? Our body language, our facial responses. All in all, what do we communicate to our man?

My turn:

How incapable are we men of catching the drift, of having the antennae in extended position? Why are we so simple? If all she wants is to be part of what's going on in our heads [and libidos] then what's the big blockage for us?

HGF says that this is what women want most:

-a man (not a cave man, though), independent, to have a quiet confidence; confident in walk and demeanor

-have religious beliefs or more so, a moral integrity

-young at heart/fun loving/good sense of humour

-a provider but not too madly career driven (which translates into being home, available, but providing security 'for the nest')

I love that last little one - very cleverly done, HGF. Seems a reasonable list to me.

Down in the trenches

So that's us being terribly nice to each other in our dance of understanding but to get blunt about it, the story at the front line is a bit different. Women's first major gain in the gender wars was the SNAG [google that]. The trouble was, he was a wimp and so came the Metrosexual, which HGF doesn't want a bar of.

The essential problem is that if women want the traits on the above list, then they're going to be delivered a creature called a Real Man. Now if she is serious about wanting a Real Man and not some female-constructed version like a Metrosexual, then she's going to get this attitude a lot:

I still give up my seat to a woman and hold doors open, and I've only once, in my 53 years, been rebuffed, and I still insist that Mrs Gruff walks on the inside, and will continue to do so. In reducing things to their absolute minimum one risks being typecast but risk is a man's lot, and more 'savoury' than aversion, so I'll indulge myself, as women are wont to do, and say that although I enjoy the company of women, and am happy to squander money on them, and see much in women that is both admirable and desirable, I know that when the call to arms is sounded there isn't time to fret about whether one's bum looks big in chainmail.

Just as men are never going to get their Galatea, so the most women can really hope for is that respect will beget respect, attention will beget attention, kindness will beget kindness and that's about all that can be hoped for.

Incidentally, it was interesting to me that William Gruff and I have been in different parts of the world most of our time and yet he still walks on the outside of the footpath and I do too. I bet he stands up when a lady comes into the room too. And I venture to say that both he and I would appreciate a true lady.

Rape

The reason I mentioned all this above is that Ubermouth has done a post on date rape, an interesting topic to be sure. She makes the point:

The problem with sex 'crimes' is that sexuality is so variable and so instinctual that a band- aid legal solution is not a one -size -fits- all protection. Even the cliche 'no means no' is rendered redundant because, even from a woman's perspective, if women are honest, many times no means a definite yes [but for the sake of propriety.....it's no more than a pretense].

This lady can write a great post when she wants and she goes on:

Every woman knows what I am talking about. For men who can't even figure out the correct response to 'do I look fat in this?' how are they supposed to decipher something so complex as 'consent' , or walk such a fine line when so vulnerable under laws which state 'right up until the point of penetration NO MEANS NO' and anything beyond that is a criminally punishable offense? Especially in the heat of the moment when he is beyond 'thinking and reasoning' anyway.

Can't even figure out the correct response? Guilty as charged, I'm afraid. Hee hee. I wrote as a response to HGF, a short while back, this little conversation:

Her: You haven't answered my question.

Him: What question?


Her: You've forgotten already!

Him: Tell me again.


Her: No, if you weren't interested the first time, I'm not telling you again.


Him [stops the car and looks across at her]: Darling, if you don't tell me the question, how can I guess? I'm not a mind reader. [Her lips purse, he puts car into gear and moves off.]


Her [After two minutes of silence]: You don't care about anything I say, do you?

Herein lies his inability [mine actually] to make the correct decision on which question was the relevant one.

Ubermouth continues:

The Supreme Court Of Canada decided [and enacted laws to reflect this] that a woman can indeed rape a man if she continues to engage in any sexual conduct against him for the purpose of,and with intention to, engage in penetrable sex despite his clear verbal objections.

Hmmm, not sure about this one. I was once technically raped by a woman for the first two minutes but by the end the crime might have been mine. There is a certain key indicator concerning rockets in pockets which does give the show away a bit.

Of greater seriousness is:

I am guessing that every single woman has legally been raped, if like me, no often means yes but we only show acquiescence, when we've reached the point of no return. Or even if the no was a serious no,but then our body reacted from the unwanted sexual stimuli[but how many times are we glad afterwards that the man didn't listen to our no's?] then rape did legally occur.

Perhaps the problem arises [and I feel almost no one will agree with me here] because there is so much sex with just anyone these days. So a girl goes to a bar, everyone's drinking and there ends up penetration. The sex card was thrown on the table, lots of ribbing and innuendo, which doesn't constitute consent by any means and yet it doesn't discourage total strangers from thinking along those lines about her, believing he might be in with a chance here.

This is the thing about mixed messages - how is a male, whom we've already established has no antennae, especially when young, possibly discern the subtle nuances of the female yes or no, sufficient to avoid a charge of rape? Most males need to 'learn' a regular girlfriend for a month before he can get it right more than he gets it wrong.

So how, in this volatile situation, with alcohol and other drugs impairing the judgement, can the correct decision be made? Even if he was ogling his own girl and pressed the point [unfortunate term, sorry] later, at least there is some chance of getting it right. And he needs to get it right, otherwise he's up in court.

You see what I'm getting at here and in the previous posts so I shan't press this point but leave it there.
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17 comments:

  1. Well (she says tongue in cheek) seeing as they can now create sperm in a test tube, the problem will soon cease to exists - as men will be redundant.

    I'll get my coat now!!!!!

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  2. Would you like men to be redundant, Michele? :)

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  3. Hmmm - well, you write and ask nicely and I'll write a nice ditty about men for I love you all - or nearly all. Thanks for the link.
    As for the male antennae or lack thereof, don't get me started! We just want you to NOTICE something new, or when we've had our hair done, etc. It's so simple - it really is. Why don't you all just repeat the words of "Wonderful tonight" for there is the answer!

    As for the serious matter of "when no means no", it is a wicked myth that "really she means yes" or that her clothes are a come-on. You want us to look nice, even sexy and most of us dress to look nice because it makes US feel good. Then we are charged with "asking for it".

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  4. W.C- I am sure most no's mean no,but not always and that is where women need to be more clear not saying,'no,no ' as she continues to kiss him and only half heartedly slaps his hand away from unbuttoning her blouse....

    I have often said no and meant no, but been ignored because the man in question knows it will lead to a yes. Obviously not a 'date' but a boy friend.

    I believe a woman does not court rape by how she is dressed, but if she dresses, behaves and projects an overt sexual looseness then she should not be surprised if her intentions/desires are misread and things get out off hand.

    Women should empower themselves by taking respsonsibility for their safety by minimizing their risk.

    We can't close our eyes while dashing across a busy road and then blame the car solely for hitting us.

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  5. BTW Thank you for the compliment, James.

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  6. You want us to look nice, even sexy and most of us dress to look nice because it makes US feel good. Then we are charged with "asking for it".

    This is a good question we keep coming back to. On the one hand, Uber says that a girl's sexual past and her attire should not be seen as grounds for a come on but that's so naive.

    On the other hand, Uber says that if she dresses, behaves and projects an overt sexual looseness then she should not be surprised if her intentions/desires are misread and things get out off hand.

    Women should empower themselves by taking respsonsibility for their safety by minimizing their risk.

    I don't think Uber's being inconsistent here - I see where she's going.

    I suppose, from the male point of view, there is the French/Italian thing where tehy dress well, with a flirtatious and sexy aspect but just this side of gauche or slovenly.

    Therefore she retains the 'approach with caution' and if her manner is both enticing but inviting only a certain type of approach, then this is not provocation.

    The French and to a lesser extent, the Italian women have this down pat.

    Provocative is when a girl dresses more openly than could be called alluring and couples this with a raunchy attitude plus she goes into situations where she is unprotected and there are not likely to be gentlemen about to help her.

    Now that's where to claim she's not asking for it is naive and stupid. More than that, no man would take it as being anything else.

    Example from Russia. I was in an office where a change came over one secretary from the day before to this. Usually elegant, sexy and fun, she was dressed this day more loosely and her voice went into what you'd call that Mae West challenging mode.

    There was no doubt in the world that that was an invitation to try one's luck.

    Providing we're not talking about game players here [and they deserve all they get on both sides of the gender divide], then we all have to take responsibility for our actions, how we dress and how we talk. Those things do have consequences in a social setting and to suggest they shouldn't is, once again, naive.

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  7. In the light of some comments I had to delete a few minutes ago, may I make a general observation.

    I wrote a post a couple of months back in which I addressed one person and said that if he came in peace and in a friendly manner, he was welcome.

    If he came here like a nutter, he could eff off and get the hell off my blog.

    This is my blog and the rules state that we keep vaguely on topic and address the issue. I won't put up with someone coming in here to slag someone off, nor do I go over there to do the same to you.

    Please respect blog etiquette and don't leave comments like that again.

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  8. I would agree with most of what you say, Uber. Of course behaving in a provacative way is a different matter. Now I'll say something which I was scared to say on this blog last week and perhaps I have good reason to be cautious given the number of comments James has had to delete today: there are different ideas of what is sexy and what is blatently "asking for it" as far as clothing is concerned and there are those who would say that a woman showing ANY flesh is "asking for it". I heard a Saudi man say on the radio that a woman who was totally veiled was "asking for it" because he could imagine the outline of her hips from the way she walked. There was no suggestion whatsoever that he should learn a little self-control. I wonder where all this leaves women who fought to be allowed to wear trousers to work, for instance?

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  9. I have read all the posts and the comments.

    Wearing sexy or even revealing clothing does not mean a girl is up for grabs by any man who chooses. But neither should she mess around with mixed messages, that is when most problems arise. Too much flirting with come on message can obviously lead to confusion.

    It is so easy to lead the guy too far and then blame it on him later!

    But then there are those guys that would just take advantage and blame it on the girl. I have met very few of those over my lifetime.

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  10. Thanks for the post, I enjoyed reading it, you sound like a real gentleman! :)

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  11. I am being consistent James for what I am saying is that regardless of of nhow a woman dresses or what her sexual past is she 'should' be safe and it's never grounds for rape being her fault. But 'should' and 'is' are two different things[as is dressing sexily and acting like a woman gagging for it] and women need to realize laws aalone will not protect them and they should be proactive in how they conduct themselves and the situations they place themselves in.

    A woman can walk down the street wearing sexy clothing but still project a measure of self confidance and class. Put that same 'outfit' on a blindly drunk woman, falling all over a man she hardly klnows, sitting on his lap , acting like a trollop and she is being reckless with her saefty assuming rape laws are going to protect her.

    Agaain, their sexual past[even a prostitutes] should be irrelevant and only how she was acting just prior to the incident should be of any relevance.


    I am consistent in what I believe.

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  12. Thanks Cherie, thanks Nikita, for that, thanks Uber - yes you are consistent in your own way.

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  13. James - Men redundant? Good gracious of course not! Who's going to put the rubbish out!

    However - a serious note if I may. As a female I should be able to dress as I choose, as I am not the guardian of your (male) ability to control yourself.

    If we continue your line of thinking James, I will end up being forced to wearing the burka because that is 'modest' and if I am not 'modest' (whatever that means) then it appears I deserve to be attacked. Seems I have heard that reasoning before somewhere - now where can it be I wonder?

    Why not just learn self-control? It is possible you know.

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  14. However - a serious note if I may. As a female I should be able to dress as I choose, as I am not the guardian of your (male) ability to control yourself.

    There is always the situation that someone taking one point of view - that a woman can dress as she want - to invoke the most extreme scenario the other way to react against when that is not what people are saying at all.

    This model of the boat crashing into one bank and then crashing across into the other, as it careers down the river, damaging itself, is a good one.

    Why?

    Why is it necessary to go to extremes - from 'let it all hang out' to wearing the burqa? Why can't there be a path down the centre, with enough variation to suit all tastes?

    A woman is free to wear what she likes, she's free to dance provocatively and she's free to accept the consequences which will never change while she won't accept ANY responsibility whatever for the effect she has.

    If you're enticing and you do that, then as sure as mnight follows day, men are going to come on to you. And if alcohol and E have removed the complexes, then there's going to be nooky becasue that is most certainly inviting it.

    The only question then is whether or not that is rape. One half of humanity would say no it's not and we're baqck exaqctly where we were before.

    The great thing about these ladies in these comments is that they've been willing to recognize that everyone must take responsibility for the consequences one induces by one's actions and behaviour.

    Women [and men] who are not willing to do so will continue to get hurt and no one will sympathize.

    On the other hand, those who are genuinely raped, who couldn't have been construed to have done anything wrong beyond marrying a mongrel dog and trying to tame him [the eternal folly of Eve] have far more cahnce of men swinging in line behind her with women and both together condemning and punishing this horrible practice.

    But we don't yet have this situation becasue a proportion of women still take this attitude which sees only themselves - a point made, not by me or by any man but by enlightened women themselves.

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  15. Just to say I completely agree with Uber's last comment.

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  16. I agree with W'C's last comment. :)

    The girl who suggests that men need to control themselves is the very views that need changing.

    Women are free to walk down the street wearing whatever they like. They can wear swimsuits in winter,just don't be surprised if you get frostbite. And don't solely blame the weather.

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